Concern over Cichlid I.D Threads

[DeFeKt]

I'd just like to express my concern (and opinion) on the matter of requesting I.D's for fish, especially african cichlids.

First of all, be aware that this is not directed at any particular individual, but rather the cichlid keeping community in general.

As the size of the community increases there are becoming more and more impulse buys and un-identified species being bought.
Now, while there is nothing wrong with that in the slightest, going hand in hand with this is the need to I.D said cichlids after the purchase has been made.
This in turn gives educated guesses made by more experienced people, and those new to the hobby tend to stick to these guesses as gospel.

I don't doubt the knowledge of my fellow cichlid keepers, but if anyone new to the hobby is planning to breed and sell the fry from these fish, please take note of what has been mentioned and make any potential buyer aware that you do NOT have 100% identification, but simply that they are possibly fish of "X" species. In all reality, unless you know the direct origin of what you have bought, they could be fish of "X+Y" species.

The gene pool is more and more being infected by fish like this. Making it harder and harder for purist type hobbyists to find that certain fish or mates for their current fish.

So please remember, if you DO need to request I.D for a certain fish, it is not a 100% guarantee that the answers you get are correct and keep in mind your fish will always be a "possibility".

I urge you to either:
Not sell the fish/it's fry.
Make the buyer aware of it's possible I.D and do not let them think it's something it is not.
Initially... only buy fish from reputable breeders and/or importers.

Thanks for reading,

Matty

 

[BillD]

Sound idea.

 

[mugginns]

The best purchase(s) for any aquarist: a good species reference guide.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

This is why I only purchase from a Malawi Specialty lfs. I've had to many "Can anyone tell me what this is?" threads in the past.

 

[Jchillin]

I've seen the problems with ID'ing Africans and I have to give you guys credit for making the attempt to identify species that are morphs of one kind or another. "...but this one has yellow flecks on the tail/dorsal/anal fin..." is enough to drive one mad.

I don't doubt the knowledge of my fellow cichlid keepers, but if anyone new to the hobby is planning to breed and sell the fry from these fish, please take note of what has been mentioned and make any potential buyer aware that you do NOT have 100% identification, but simply that they are possibly fish of "X" species. In all reality, unless you know the direct origin of what you have bought, they could be fish of "X+Y" species.

Sound advice, I hope folks understand what this means.

 

[JDogg]

blam chain stores and their "mix africans" for 99 cents tanks :?

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

I'd have to agree.

You should NEVER buy any type of pet until you know you can properly care for it. How is one supposed to know how to care for an animal if one doesn't know what that animal is?

IMO, success with cichlid-keeping is predicated on proper nutrition/water parameters and tank compatiblity/size. You have to know that you can meet the requirements before bringing the fish home. This means doing your research BEFORE buying, and to know what your buying in the first place (those "$.99 assorted cichlids" are always going to be a crapshoot).

 

[Zagz]

Unfortunately I agree with JDogg, the lfs's around here all have mixed african tanks. They can't identify which cichlids are in the tanks. Best to get the fish from breeders or a well informed lfs that doesn't have mixed african tanks. I purchased what I was told to be aulonocara jacofrebergi's from a local lfs and it turned out to be Christmas fulu haps. So even labelled they can be mis-labelled.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I also had what was labeled as a Jacob but it ended up being an Protomelas sp. tangerine tiger.

 

[hamburgler]

blam chain stores and their "mix africans" for 99 cents tanks :?

And that goes beyond people who even attempt finding info on forums like this. The majority of people who purchase these fish have 10 gallon community tanks and just shop by whats on sale.

 

[DeFeKt]

Thanks for the comments all,
I had this thread sitting on my desktop for a couple hours before I decided to finally post it. I was worried about getting mixed reactions and causing an uproar. But it has fortunatly turned out for the better...

IMO, success with cichlid-keeping is predicated on proper nutrition/water parameters and tank compatiblity/size. You have to know that you can meet the requirements before bringing the fish home. This means doing your research BEFORE buying, and to know what your buying in the first place (those "$.99 assorted cichlids" are always going to be a crapshoot).

Another excellent point made by Voodoo.

I propose making something like this as a sticky, in the hope it gets read while people are considering making a new livestock purchase. I know we can't enforce any of these points made, but I do believe prior education is going to be the key to the survival of our hobby/obsession.

For the record, I think we are all guilty of such purchases
After a purchase at a lfs of an albino "Assorted" peacock, I learnt the true trap of not knowing it's identity.
Since then i've been able to trace everything back to a reputable breeder who most of you have probably heard of, or read her articles.
It has been well worth looking into as well, as I've managed to source some of the better quality cichlids in Australia. Perhaps i'm biased though

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Hey, the reason I'm so quick to point a finger at someone's stupid mistake is because I've already made that mistake. Probably twice. And four more even dumber ones...

Seriously though, getting into cichlids can go one of two ways: it'll either be one of the most rewarding things you'll ever do in this hobby, or it'll be one of the worst-- possibly even bad enough to drive you away from fish-keeping altogether. You've got to do your homework. Period.

You've also got to be careful about what you buy and where you buy it from. You don't have to get your cichlids from breeders, specialty shops, etc. Any shop can order quality, well-identified fish. They'll also take the time to properly label 'em. You see those assorted Africans in a lot of shops and large chain stores because they're dirt cheap to order; it's up to us, as consumers, to avoid the temptation.

I'm glad you went ahead and posted this thread. Unpopular idea or not, it's something that needs to be brought to light. I like the idea of making it some type of sticky after the discussion has run its course.

 

[coldmachineUK]

Absolutely defekt, I agree entirely. But, sometimes even reputable breeders get things wrong. My saulosi who turned out to be msobo magunga is a prime example of that. They were bought from a reputable breeder in my area and held at my LFS until I could get in to purchase them. They were only juveniles, and as you know with all africans it's exceptionally hard to positively ID at this stage.

We all, to an extent - even experienced cichlid keepers - rely on the honesty and reputation of breeders and those we obtain stock from. If they get it wrong, it can be months before we find out.

I think it's a good thing to have experienced knowledgeable cichlid keepers out there to help positively ID fish later on down the line if it turns out there's a problem. Not many people can know about every single african species out there, so a forum like this is ideal for mixed experiences to be drawn together to provide a great repository of information.
Referring to my own experience again: personally I don't know of every african species, not even every malawi. There's just so many. When my males began colouring up my only conclusion was "these aren't saulosi". I had nothing else to go on except trawl through the web, and forums and articles to track down a positive ID. But, another forum deliberated for a couple of days before a consensus was reached and I've since double-checked and confirmed that.

So, on the one hand I agree with the idea: before buying ANY fish do your research. BUT, on the other hand, we rely on the word of the breeders particularly when we're obtaining juveniles. If they get it wrong, it's not our fault as fish keepers. The best we can do is drawn on knowledge, and that includes via forums and the Internet in general as well as books and colleagues.

 

[locorosa]

Plenty of food for thought here...good point, ColdMachine!

 

[mobiusnu]

But, sometimes even reputable breeders get things wrong.

I'm having trouble ID'ing a fish from a reputable breeder. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=902405

It happens. In fact, it has happened to me a few times.

 

[Big Ben]

africans confuse me so much, most them only have scientific names im like what is pseudotropheus labidochromis species 48 peacock mbuna mugatu? I know thers 3 lakes that make it more simpler but it was too much homework for me and my first cichlid tank lol. i guess thats why i keep the other type of cichlids. I;m glad this post was made cause I will be starting a 35 gal soon and I'll be making the jump to a few africans so i'll be sure to get them from reputable people and read up b4 hand.