Discus is picking on the other one

[candymancan]

So my local petco is now carrying discus and they will keep getting them in from now on and they have been on sale for 2 weeks and will be until the 25th for only $19 so so I bought a smaller 2 to 2 1/2 inch blue diamond discus hes been in the tank for 2 weeks now.

I got a second one 2 days ago its a Red pigeon discus hes slightly bigger about 3 inches in size... They both are healthy looking, eating like pigs.. I had to acclimate them to my lights in the begging I turned my t5's off and kept the dimmer t8's on and now they are fine with the t5's..

However the problem is the red pigeon discus is very aggressive to the blue diamond... Anytime the blue diamond is in view he immediately charges him and until the blue diamond runs away... Its a problem im started to get irritated with... The blue diamond is very friendly.. when I got the pigeon and had him floating in the bag the blue diamond was right next to him hanging around and he always wants to hang with the pigeon.. but now he runs immediately the moment he sees the pigeon

i plan to get more discus but right now im not sure what to do with this red pigeon... Im thinking of either returning him... Or maybe putting him in my other 30g with my livebearers or maybe in the 55g.. but the 55g has 3 angel fish in it and I don't do water changes often in that tank.. I only do it when the nitrates get to around 40 or so because its such a pain carrying 2-3 gallon buckets with a 55g tank, to my sink in the kitchen..

Why is this Red pigeon so darn aggressive, he doesn't just chase but he literally pecks the blue diamond pretty hard... I mean the blue diamond is now like always hiding and all I ever see is the red pigeon in the middle and top of the tank

 

[Andy Sager]

Discus are a schooling fish (especially more so when small)but also have a hierarchy system which means that the biggest, baddest fish wants to show the others in the school to not mess with his'/her's position in the ranks. This is why is it better to add multiple Discus at the same time so that no one fish can be picked on. For now, you may want to put a clear divider in your tank so that the 2 fish can see each other but not attack each other until you add more fish to the school. Keep in mind tho, adding Discus one at a time will have the same results that you are having now until the pecking order is established.

Hope this helps

 

[MICEY]

how big is the discus tank , they will need at least a 55 gal and it would be easier to keep them with the angels and do water changes on one tank , discus are very sensitive to water conditions they need soft very clean water and lots of plants if you can not supply these conditions don't get the fish they will not live long
most people say you shoyld have at least 6 discus

 

[Andy Sager]

how big is the discus tank , they will need at least a 55 gal and it would be easier to keep them with the angels and do water changes on one tank , discus are very sensitive to water conditions they need soft very clean water and lots of plants if you can not supply these conditions don't get the fish they will not live long
most people say you shoyld have at least 6 discus

While your description is true for wild Discus, the types mentioned are not wild and live in a different environment.
It may help you both to read the following thread: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/truth-about-discus-320215.html#post3053530

Hope this helps

 

[MICEY]

I have read that , , but since you don't know where those domesticated discus where breed your better off giving them they more natural conditions
here in Oregon where I live there are tons of discus breeders which is not surprising
are tap water is very soft and acid
(my well is a little harder 120ppm and ph is 7)
I be-leave that unless your very experiences and have the time to properly do water changes and keep the fish around there natural conditions , your better off raising fish that live in conditions like your tap water is (Africans if you have hard basic water, neons if you have soft acid water )

 

[Andy Sager]

I understand your logic but this is a national/ international website so to say that it must be done a certain way is not really an accurate advice (IMO). Water can be made to the specifics necessary to house fish from any areas of the world ( I had to do that for some of the fish I imported) so to be limited to a fish type due to your tap/ well water is a little off putting to me as a hobbyist and could confuse or deter a new hobbyist. But again, I understand your logic and in many cases, it can make sense from an ease of care perspective. However, I was fortunate enough to know and buy fish from Jack Wattley ( one of the Fathers of tank bred discus) whose hatchery was in S. Florida where the water is as hard and alkaline as it comes. Had he not altered the water to the fish's liking, who knows where Discus would be today?

My bigger issue tho, is with mixing Discus with Angels. It has always been a bad mix as Angels tend to be a more hardier, gregarious fish than Discus but the new tank raised Discus seem to have upped their boldness and seem to be able to handle having Angels in with them. Again tho, this is situational based on the size of the fish being mixed as well as the type of Discus we are talking about. Wild Discus have a very poor track record when mixed with domesticated Angelfish.
For the OP, their best source of info about water requirements will come from the store the fish were purchased at. If these fish are being held in, say, high PH, high hardness water in the store and were looking and acting good after being in those conditions for some time, those are the parameters that should be duplicated, not the parameters of wild Discus. From my experience, Wild Discus will not look good under those conditions at any point.

Hope this helps

 

[candymancan]

Well these discus the petco lady said the water they came in that had a ph of 7.2 .. This lady isn't just some petsmart petco person either she actually takes care of her tanks, and has been in the fish business for 30 years she said.. That's why she orders the discus because she maintains her tanks to be able to handle them she has a system dedicated to them... petco or not,


Anyway she said they came in a ph of 7.2 from the supplier... My tank they are in now the ph is 7.2-7.4, 85f nitrates are only 10

The tank with the 3 angles the water is vastly different.. Its PH is 6.0 at least that's as far as I can measure it and the water temp is 80-82f nitrates are 20 atm.. This is why I don't want to put the discus in the tank with the angels... But I will separate them if the pigeon keeps doing this. The angels also have gouramis, rams, long fin serape tetra's I really dont want to put a expensive fish that was bred in 7.2 PH in a tank that is 6.0 or could be even lower... The angels actually love the low p.h I kept losing angels until my ph went down which is why I put them in that tank besides its size... The drift wood is 4 feet long almost and it really gets my ph nice and low.

Also I should note before I got the blue discus he was in her tanks for at least 2-3 weeks.. I just never bought him because he was 60$ and I didn't have the money... then it went on sale for $19 and I got it before some little kid bought it and put it in a 10 gallon or 20 gallon.. I don't know a lot about discus but I know they require very clean water and I have had fish tanks for 15+ years now so im not a novice

 

[BuffaloNYDiscus]

I have discus they are better kept in schools of 5 or more
I use reverse osmosis h2o and do two water changes a week 20%
I feed them 4 different foods also
Had them for 8 yrs now


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[dalto]

There are a limited number of ways to reduce these types of aggression issues.

1 - As others have suggested you could add more discuss.
2 - Not sure how big that tank is but you could put them in a bigger tank so they could have more room.
3 - You could separate them.

Adding more is probably your best option in this specific circumstance.

Keep in mind full size discus are the size of a plate. I would not keep adults in less than a 75g.

 

[candymancan]

Ya I know how big they get. they get the size of a small plate.. not a normal plate lol.. I've seen them fully grown in strores.

Im noticing hes only really aggressive during feeding mainly... I'll probably separate them.. Cant afford anymore of them right now. Just spent $3,000 on an engagement ring and wedding band for my fiance

 

[dalto]

First of all, congrats on your engagement!

But yeah, I had always thought I knew how big an adult discuss was until I actually saw a real full size discus. I have seen discus that are in the 9-10" range. These were wild discus so it is possible the line bred ones don't get as big but I was pretty surprised. I thought they only reached about 6"

 

[candymancan]

Thanks,,

what about the GH and KH of the water... I got the temps they require... and PH is kinda out of the ballpark.. wild caught seem to be like 6.0-6.5 but the bred ones seem to be more 6.5-7.2 ish or so right... My PH is 7.4-7.6, but not 7.2.. Not sure if its 7.6 or 7.4 because you know how those normal ph and high ph kits go.

I tested my GH and KH just now and My KH was 3 almost 4. The GH was 6 Is this acceptable for discus and electric blue rams ?

Also im noticing the behavior more of the Red pigeon and the blue diamond.. The Pigeon only gets aggressive during feeding.. when I feed them.. (I use a mix of bloodworm and flakes because not all my fish like the worms and the pigeon and diamond both seem to eat both types.. ) The pigeon gets overly aggressive to the diamond and only until like 30 minutes after the last litteral morsal is gone and I dim the lights does he stops being super aggressive...

Then after feeding like an hour or so after or the next day when I turn the lights off.. as long as I don't feed them.. The pigeon is passive aggressive.. He lets the diamond swim around the tank and even lets him like 3-4 inches away and only very occasional does he chase him... But he still does chase him... Just not as every sight like he does during feeding... Both do eat... the diamond even though being chased away from the middle/top of the tank he still eats just fine... But the stress of the chasing makes his gills move a lot faster. They do seem to sleep together though when the lights are off

Btw why are they are called red pigeon lol.. mine isn't red at all hes orange, more like a peach orange

 

[Andy Sager]

Again, I'd check with the store you got them from for correct water parameters for these particular fish.
As for coloring, there is a food by Hilkari that Discus breeders use to make their fish more red. I'm not sure of the name but it contains foods that are high in caratenoids for coloring. If you feed yours a color enhancing food, it too will turn red.

Hope this helps

 

[gilpi]

Discus definitely do well or better in groups from my experience. Not an expert, but I had discus for a few years and my take on them is that they almost seem to have personalities, example.... I have a couple of discus with angels that are thriving, healthy and growing at a nice rate. At feeding time they are practically jumping out of the tank and they compete with the angels for food! Yet my other discus I have to keep separate in their own tank, they're very shy, moody and get spooked very easily. As mentioned here, there is a pecking order that goes on with discus, and again, perhaps adding a couple more would solve your problem?

 

[gilpi]

Again, I'd check with the store you got them from for correct water parameters for these particular fish.
As for coloring, there is a food by Hilkari that Discus breeders use to make their fish more red. I'm not sure of the name but it contains foods that are high in caratenoids for coloring. If you feed yours a color enhancing food, it too will turn red.

Hope this helps

This is interesting. Does this work only with red strains of discus?
What if it was fed to blue/turquoise ?





Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Andy Sager]

This is interesting. Does this work only with red strains of discus?
What if it was fed to blue/turquoise ?





Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

Can't really say. Back in "the day " some of the better colored Discus were that way through the use of Hormones ( methyltestosterone.) When I got away from Discus, none of these pigeons or leopards or new strains were around so I don't know how they were made. It's possible, with red being an underlying color, it might intensify some of the fish's colors, not necessarily making them red. For example, some of the reallllllly black Bettas are black over red unlike the old ones which were a combination of steel blue/ black mixed.
This is one of the reasons why I like wild fish, the colors are natural and good husbandry makes them shine bright

 

[gilpi]

Wow, we're going back a ways. I remember back when I first started in the hobby the only discus around were the Heckel and the Green.
I can't keep up with all the new strains.

 

[Andy Sager]

Wow, we're going back a ways. I remember back when I first started in the hobby the only discus around were the Heckel and the Green.
I can't keep up with all the new strains.

I hear ya Those are the true wild strains. I remember when Turquoise was the "NEW" Discus color.

 

[dalto]

Honestly, I still like the wild strains better. Some of them are truly beautiful and I like them all the more because they truly occur in nature.

 

[Andy Sager]

Honestly, I still like the wild strains better. Some of them are truly beautiful and I like them all the more because they truly occur in nature.

Absolutely. Have you seen the Lake Tefe Greens/ Heckles?
Son of Tarzoo | Details | Articles | TFH Magazine®