Help me convince her!

[phoebekatee]

My best friend has a 60l tank which used to have neons and platies in it. Now her family is subtly killing all the fish like feeding them less, as they want to put in 12 ciclids. Now I know very little about ciclids so excuse me if I am wrong, but is it not inhumane to even put in 12 platies let alone ciclids? They are extremely stubborn, so I will need to show her this thread. Quick replies please!

 

[KonvictKeeper]

Inhumane. Both killing the fish that way and putting 12 cichlids in a tank that size. If they are shell dwellers maybe but I doubt it. Please do not do this to your fish.

 

[Mouth-Brooder-Fanatic]

60l = 15.9 US gallons, 13.2 Uk gallons.
the only cichlids they can get in there are shellies, rams or a single dwarf cichlid.
anything that gets over 4 inches cannot go in there. that wipes out most of the cichlid group. anything that gets bigger that 3 inches cannot be kept in there with a group of more than 4 before territory gets too small and the weaker get killed.
shellies (lamprologus occelatus) can go in there, a colony of 1m 3f and they would be ok.
rams in a 1m 2f ratio (one gets removed when the others pair up) can go in there.
a single dwarf gourami can go in there.
1m 2f of apistos could go in there, but there will be bad bullying if the male is not peaceful. so not a very good idea.

cichlids need a much bigger tank, but have exquisite personalities and colours. if they want these fish that bad, they need to upgrade by at least 30 US gallons.

instead of cichlids, they could go with guppies and a bottom feeder, maybe a few cories. there are great colours there and cories are very cool.

to the friend: im very sorry we have to be so harsh and say a big no to the 12 you want, however it will kill, stunt, poison, isolate, confuse, disease and upset the fish. its fully true and a shame, but they will need a bigger tank. and frankly, someone who loves fish enough not to kill off theirs in favour of another lot. u can give the neons etc away, dont have to murder them!!

sorry x xx

 

[absolutangel04]

Why? Who came up with the idea of 12 cichlids? That seems like a weird, random number....
BTW, there are hundreds of species of cichlid, so just telling is 12 cichlids isn't enough info for a better argument from us. I agree that 12 of any cichlid shouldn't be in there (full grown) except MAYBE for small shellies. But, its hard to give a better argument when I don't know what sort of cichlid we are talking about.

 

[KonvictKeeper]

Yeah they could be talking about rams or managuense's...

 

[Mouth-Brooder-Fanatic]

or worse, oscars.

 

[phoebekatee]

They just want any 12 ciclids they can get, and I don't think their LFS does shellies. Sorry I have no more info, but as I really don't know much about ciclids I can't prove a good enough argument on my own. I tried to adopt the few remaining fish, but noooooo! I have to pay for them! Just yesterday there was a pregnant platy gasping for air at the surface near the filter

 

[phoebekatee]

Can anyone post a pic of shellies?

 

[Mouth-Brooder-Fanatic]

ok first things first they cannot have any fish they want like cichlids if the tank is not healthy for the fish they have. they need to be respectful of get rid of the tank. fish are not self cleaning, oxygenating, denitrifying, feeding or water changing. the owner does this stuff and the owner has to care.

1) how often do they pwc? how much water?
2) how often would they norm feed?
3) why do they want cichlids?

i had no problems with them getting cichlids (if they got the right tank), however now i am hesitating in thinking they should even keep fish. its starting to sound a bad idea for the fish tbh.

 

[Mouth-Brooder-Fanatic]

here is a shelly group x

 

[KonvictKeeper]

or worse, oscars.

I think a managuense would get bigger. But thats not the point

 

[Mouth-Brooder-Fanatic]

Managuense get to about 8in i think, Oscars get 18 in plus in a good tank lol!

 

[absolutangel04]

So, they would actually rather kill the fish than just give them to you?
Truthfully, just saying, "I want 12 of anything" is rather ridiculous IMO. Sorry for being blunt, but whats the point in having fish if they will just die young anyway?
I don't really know what sort of convincing you can do if somebody is actually willing to just them die anyway.
Why don't you suggest that they research the type of cichlid they want? That way, they would see for themselves that it won't work. Tell your friend to google it and it should be evident pretty fast that cichlids need more space than the tank offers.
If this your friend's tank, or the family's tank?

 

[garfy]

I have to agree with mbf i`m not sure your friend should be keeping fish at all.Killing fish off by not feeding them so you can have another kind of fish is awful!!!
Most lfs would happily take the fish back and sell them to somebody who cares for them.

 

[Mouth-Brooder-Fanatic]

to be fair, before i found AA and started looking at cichlids, i saw all the sites and whenever it said "55gal minimum" i thought 'yeah in luxury. 10 of those would be fine in a 20.' and i am horrified at how i even considered this.
get her/him on here and let them listen to the community, AA is what has made hundreds of aquarists go addicted and i think they will be one of them and will get the info they need xxxx

 

[garfy]

Yes there is a wealth of knowledge and experience on here and between all the members i dont think there would be a question that went unanswered.

 

[absolutangel04]

@mbf, I am rather horrified that you thought that too! I am glad you found this site though in that case! Lol.

 

[phoebekatee]

It's the family tank, and is obsessively looked after! No previous disease and the water is always crystal clear. It has been running with tropical for 3 months I think, but they want to upgrade to something more colorful and cichlids is what they wan in particular. I don't know about you but I always know the amount of fish I want when I go and buy, and they just want 12. They won't admit to murdering them, but it is clear to see as they have turned the filter down and feed only once a day now, and keep talking about cichlids xx

 

[severum mama]

Not sure what your friend's problem is, but slowly starving fish rather than rehoming them certainly is cruel.

60l = 15.9 US gallons, 13.2 Uk gallons.
the only cichlids they can get in there are shellies, rams or a single dwarf cichlid.
Rams are dwarf cichlids.
anything that gets over 4 inches cannot go in there. that wipes out most of the cichlid group. anything that gets bigger that 3 inches cannot be kept in there with a group of more than 4 before territory gets too small and the weaker get killed.
There are lots of cichlids that stay under 4 inches. Most are still unsuitable for a tank that size. Stocking guidelines for cichlids, even dwarfs, should take into consideration behavior, NOT size.
shellies (lamprologus occelatus) can go in there, a colony of 1m 3f and they would be ok.
There are lots of species of Tanganyikan shell dwellers. Ocellatus are aggressive for their size and I would not recommend them in less than a 20 gallon tank (speaking from experience here). Multifasciatus or brevis would be better options.
rams in a 1m 2f ratio (one gets removed when the others pair up) can go in there.
I definitely would not try a trio in a tank that size. A pair would be pushing it.
a single dwarf gourami can go in there.
1m 2f of apistos could go in there, but there will be bad bullying if the male is not peaceful. so not a very good idea.
It's the female that's going to kill off the odd female out once they pair. Males are rarely as aggressive as the females. I would not recommend a trio of any apistos in such a small tank.

cichlids need a much bigger tank, but have exquisite personalities and colours. if they want these fish that bad, they need to upgrade by at least 30 US gallons.
Which cichlids? African Rift Lake cichlids? Many cichlids can be kept in less than 40 gallons.

instead of cichlids, they could go with guppies and a bottom feeder, maybe a few cories. there are great colours there and cories are very cool.

to the friend: im very sorry we have to be so harsh and say a big no to the 12 you want, however it will kill, stunt, poison, isolate, confuse, disease and upset the fish. its fully true and a shame, but they will need a bigger tank. and frankly, someone who loves fish enough not to kill off theirs in favour of another lot. u can give the neons etc away, dont have to murder them!!

sorry x xx

Comments in blue.

 

[absolutangel04]

Well, most fish can thrive being fed once a day, so they won't likely be starving them to death anytime soon. The filter could be a problem though.
Honestly, platys are pretty darn colorful. Especially the yellow/orange ones. But, those fish are all small and would be easy to re-home in all likelihood if they do want different ones.