Help. Young maingano with hole in head?

[vlehchu]

Hi all. New to the forum. I wanted to post some pics of one of my young cichlids that has something on his head. Help! How do I treat him? Do I need to take him out and put into a separate tank? Or treat the whole tank? Also, what is the recommended treatment? Thanks for your guidance!!!


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[vlehchu]

Some further detail:
Newish tank about 3 weeks.
8 mbuma cichlids in a 75 gallon.

Latest test results (tonight)

Ammonia: .25
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 10
Temp: 80

I've been adding a splash of stability each day and doing about 30-40% water change every 2-3 days. I just added aquarium salt 2 days ago (tablespoon per 5 gallons).

I've noticed a few of the fish rubbing on the rocks but attributed it to "new tank syndrome, hence the frequent water changes and stability. The maingano looked fine when I left for my business trip yesterday, but when I came home tonight, he had this enormous hole in his head.

I'm going to bump up the temp about 3 degrees tonight until I can figure out what else to do. Let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks in advance for your help!!


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[African Lover]

It's called hole in the head disease. The others here can advise on treatment or you can call a reputable fish store for immediate advice. Sooner is better...evidenced by how quickly the problem appeared. :/

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[African Lover]

Oops...I meant to quote you.

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[vlehchu]

Thanks. Spoke to my fish store today. They suspect it is due to malnutrition. I have Mbumas. I read online that they should not have a high protein diet, so I've been feeding them HBH 8 veggie flakes and tetra veggie pellets. Apparently I should be mixing the flakes with a higher protein pellet. They told me to change their diet and it should clear up. Thoughts?


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[Mogurako]

Thanks. Spoke to my fish store today. They suspect it is due to malnutrition. I have Mbumas. I read online that they should not have a high protein diet, so I've been feeding them HBH 8 veggie flakes and tetra veggie pellets. Apparently I should be mixing the flakes with a higher protein pellet. They told me to change their diet and it should clear up. Thoughts?


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HITH is not caused by poor nutrition, It is caused by Hexamita sp. and/or Sprionucleus vortens and is treated with metronidazole.

HLLE is however caused by poor nutrition and less than ideal water conditions. Based on what you feed and the fact you have .25 ammonia in a tank that likely has a PH of 7.8+ , that would indicate to me that it's HLLE.

Get a low protein pellet such as NLS Thera-A and feed it exclusively while keeping up an aggressive water change (20-35% every other day). The recovery will be slow but they should turn around.


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[squirrilah fish]

API general cure, and a hospital tank if you can. Hole in the head takes weeks to go away, you have to keep treating even as symptoms start to improve. Also a good diet, and perfect water quality are a must.

Honestly, and I know I'll take some heat for this, saving this fish may end up costing more than a replacement costs. But if this fish is important to you (I've been there, spent the money) you do what you have to do.

Treatment could go smoothly, or maybe not.

Again:
PERFECT water
PERFECT nutrition (not a lot, just the right amount to less food)
API general cure
Follow up with API Melafix, and Primafix.

Good luck.

He needs treatment. This is an infection, nutrition alone won't make it go away, it might be possible with probiotics, but I doubt it, as probiotics are more preventative than palliative.


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[Mogurako]

API general cure, and a hospital tank if you can. Hole in the head takes weeks to go away, you have to keep treating even as symptoms start to improve. Also a good diet, and perfect water quality are a must.

Honestly, and I know I'll take some heat for this, saving this fish may end up costing more than a replacement costs. But if this fish is important to you (I've been there, spent the money) you do what you have to do.

Treatment could go smoothly, or maybe not.

Again:
PERFECT water
PERFECT nutrition (not a lot, just the right amount to less food)
API general cure
Follow up with API Melafix, and Primafix.

Good luck.

He needs treatment. This is an infection, nutrition alone won't make it go away, it might be possible with probiotics, but I doubt it, as probiotics are more preventative than palliative.


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To the best of my knowledge Mbuna typically don't get HITH initially. It's much more likely that the tank wasn't properly cycled ( hence the ammonia ) and poor nutrition which lead to the head and lateral line erosion. Then got a secondary infection.

Clean water, high quality food, dose metronidazole and follow up with double dose stress coat/gaurd.

Melafix and Pimafix aren't necessary IMO/E, they are little more than snake oil. Perfect water conditions and a highly quality staple like NLS are far more beneficial than any additives.

Also OP, skip the stability and the aquarium salt. It's not needed and is likely part of the issue as well.


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[squirrilah fish]

metronidazole is the main ingredient in General cure.

The Melafix/ Pimafix is to prevent secondary bacterial or fungal infections, which are common after treating LLD.

I've used Melafix a lot, I'll swear by it.


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[Mogurako]

metronidazole is the main ingredient in General cure.

I'm aware...

Clean water will also prevent further infection.


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[Freakgecko91]

The main issue here is that the tank has .25ppm of ammonia. Treating the HLLE (NOT Hole in the Head) is only treating the symptom, not the cause. A higher water change schedule, as proposed by Mog, will in fact be the difference. Nothing will get better with ammonia that high, as HLLE is most often attributed to poor water quality (including high nitrates) and poor diet.


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[squirrilah fish]

I'm aware...

Clean water will also prevent further infection.


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Not always.


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[Mogurako]

Not always.


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Almost always, if there's a secondary infection it's typically because of poor water conditions.


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[HUKIT]

The main issue here is that the tank has .25ppm of ammonia.

Actually at .25 ppm ammonia doesn't even stress fish if the pH level is below 8, so without knowing his exact levels you can't be sure that is a issue at all.

 

[Freakgecko91]

Actually at .25 ppm ammonia doesn't even stress fish if the pH level is below 8, so without knowing his exact levels you can't be sure that is a issue at all.

I stand corrected on that


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[HUKIT]

That doesn't look like either HLLE or HITH to me, it looks more bactieral such as Columnaris...

 

[squirrilah fish]

Almost always, if there's a secondary infection it's typically because of poor water conditions.


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I agree poor water quality causes initial infections, but once a fish is infected, and gone through treatment, so it doesn't have a slime coat and is susceptible to normal bacteria always in the water that it would normally fight off.
Same thing when you've just gotten over a cold, your more susceptible to a reoccurrence.
Thats a big reason why Melafix and Pimafix exist, to prevent secondary infections.
Also, maintains perfect water quality, whilst doing a strong treatment like General Cure is not an easy task.


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[Mogurako]

That's why I said double dose stress coat/guard. It replaces the natural slime coat and helps open wounds heal faster. That coupled with clean water is all that is needed to fight of a secondary infection.

Why add something that isn't needed and is considered by many to do nothing?


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[squirrilah fish]

Your the first person I have seen that says it does nothing. I've used it, quite a bit actually for torn fins, and other things, I have also not used it. It makes a noticeable difference to me. Just saying.


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[Mogurako]

There's actually allot of members on here that don't care for the product. There are some swear by it. Personally after I done a few rounds of meds the last thing I want to do is add more junk to my aquarium that says not to do water changes.

Almost all things IME can be cured/healed by high quality foods, large frequent water changes. I try to add little to no chemicals to my tanks and only use meds as a last resort.


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