Limitations of a Planted African Cichlid Tank without CO2

[natpo]

Hi All,
I am brand new to the forum, and I am looking for a little bit of assistance. I have been keeping cichlids for about 5 years, and I currently have a 55 gallon aquarium with more mild mbuna and several peacocks. I am looking to plant the tank as well as I can without getting into CO2 systems as I am on a time/expense limitation as a student. I recently tied an Anubias species of plant to some rockwork to see if my tank would just foster plants well without my researching it further, but this didn't prove to be the case (yellowing of leaf tips and slow death of individual leaves.....possibly nitrogen deficient??). I would appreciate any advice that you more experienced hobbyists may have when it comes to starting the planting process as well as reaching the limits of a tank like mine. Thanks in advance for your help.

Some tank specs:
-55g long
-1 30 watt 36inch 5700k bulb (more than 1 year old)
- Sand substrate
-river rock- rockscape
-1 aquaclear 300 filter
-1 eheim powerhead
-temperature at 78 deg F

Stock: 3 rusty cichlids (1M, 2F), 1 red zebra, 1 yellow lab, 1 taiwan reef peacock, 1 lemon jacobfreibergi, 1 red jacobfreibergi, 1 pictus catfish

currently: no fertilizer, poor lighting, and biweekly waterchanges of 20%

 

[natpo]

Here's my male Iodotropheus sprengerae (rusty cichlid)



Any advice on plant nutrient dosing? Inexpensive lighting? Maximum quantity of plants in this system?

 

[BigJim]

Your greatest limitation is that you're keeping African cichlids. They're notorious for eating/destroying plants.

If you're lucky enough to have Africans that won't destroy your plants, your tank is nowhere near needing CO2. I have a feeling that your anubias is suffering due to a lack of light. 30W of fluorescent light over a 55g isn't enough.

 

[natpo]

Your greatest limitation is that you're keeping African cichlids. They're notorious for eating/destroying plants.

If you're lucky enough to have Africans that won't destroy your plants, your tank is nowhere near needing CO2. I have a feeling that your anubias is suffering due to a lack of light. 30W of fluorescent light over a 55g isn't enough.

Hi BigJim, Thanks for the input. I have read that families of plants like Anubias are distasteful to cichlids. Though my experience with this plant is short, I have found that the cichlids have left the plant alone except where the leaves have begun to deteriorate (possibly lose their bad taste). Also, I was under the impression that Anubias almost had a "next-to-nothing" light requirement due to them being a very low light plant. What lighting would you suggest? Also, when is it necessary to start fertilizing?

 

[fort384]

I would say assuming you can find plants the your fish will leave alone, your limitation is lighting.

30W over a 55g tank is not much light. A dual T8 fixture would bring you up to something that would more reasonably grow low light plants without the need for fertilizer and CO2 addition. My guess is lighting deficiency is the reason for your anubias die back. You could try replacing the bulb first before upgrading the fixture... if it is a couple of years old, the PAR it produces will be diminished substantially. It might be possible that with a fresh bulb you could grow some low light plants like the anubias if they were tied up higher on the rocks (closer to the light).

 

[natpo]

Thanks for the advice, Fort384. I may try replacing the bulb first, but I will likely want to increase wattage overall without too much expense. Now, granted this planting experience all goes really well, what is your opinion on the limitations of a planted tank without high end lighting and CO2 input? I want to maximize the setup that I have right now. Could a tank like this handle 8-10 Anubias?

 

[fort384]

If you went with a dual T8 fixture, you could put as many anubias in there as would fit . You can make some amazing planted setups without the need to dose fert, inject CO2, or provide extremely high lighting. 8-10 seems like a lot, depending on the variety of anubias though... most are rather large. But, there are many varieties, and mixing and matching might give you the look you are after.

I am interested to see how it works out. Another member is starting up a 240G African cichlid tank, and he is on the fence about whether or not to put live plants in. He too was looking at Anubias to start... seems like a tougher plant, and the fish may leave it alone. Being tied down helps too, as I think the fish might rearrange anything that is planted in the substrate.

 

[natpo]

Once again, I appreciate the feedback. It is hard to get good discussion about these topics without a forum like this. If you have time, I have one more question for you. I am looking at a pair of 36inch t5 lights (used on craigslist), and they are asking 40 dollars. Do you think this is a viable option? I believe they are 39watts each.

 

[fort384]

You are welcome!

That is a really good price... but that is a lot more light than you would need. If you only plan to keep anubias, I wouldn't put that much light on the tank... it could lead to a lot of algae.

What you could do with it is run 1 of the bulbs as an actinic bulb, which would not provide usable light to algae or plants, and run the other bulb as something 6500-10000K color temp. That would give you effectively 39W of usable T5HO light, which would be plenty for anubias. The actinic bulb would add a nice blue color to the tank lighting without increasing the total wattage of usable light.

 

[BigJim]

Anubias are low-light plants, but they still need some light. Plants need something referred to as photosynthetically available radiation or PAR. PAR decreases as the light passes through the water. Unfortunately a PAR meter is expensive, so most aquarists use the Wpg rule of thumb instead.

Is your tank 36" long or 48" long? If it's a four footer, look at shop lights. A simple tow-bulb shop light will be cheaper than just about anything comparable at the LFS.

 

[natpo]

Wouldn't this only be increasing the wattage from 30 watts to 39 watts of useable light? Excuse my novice questions. I do, however, like the idea of throwing an actinic light in there as well. Is T5 light stronger watt-for-watt than other lighting, or did you just think that 39 watts was sufficient regardless?

 

[fort384]

Yes, it is only a 9W difference, but T5HOs actually provide about double the PAR of a T8 tube, so it is a substantial increase, even though the wattage is not that much higher.

 

[natpo]

It's more of a 48'' long, but unfortunately it measure 47 inches across. I believe this will make is just short of using shop lights. Are T5s expensive to replace/ do they have to be replaced often?

 

[melosu58]

Both threads merged together.

 

[fort384]

T5HOs will last a couple of years. Yes, they cost more than regular T8 bulbs. They will run you somewhere between $10-20 each.

It is important to distinguish here between regular T5 bulbs, and T5HO. 39W 36" bulbs are T5HO (high output). They are far more powerful and produce much more PAR than a standard T5, or T5NO (normal output).

 

[doogle]

anubias are great in cichlid tanks i have three and a real dark fern looking thing that must taste bad because they leave it alone. get a moss ball thing it will take nutrients from the water algae needs to grow. i am looking at 2x54w t5 h.o.-hagen glow, or a coralife t5 h.o, not sure yet tho.i got a t5 2x14w n.o. by coralife, and 15w t8 on my planted mollie 20gallon tank. if it works good i might not get a h.o. t5. the normal output t5 lights it up pretty good, i cant wait to see high output lights!

 

[doogle]

the title of this thread is funny. you are limited when it comes to cichlids and plants. 4sure. but we all wanna doit anyway, if your smart about it, it can be done, easily.

 

[natpo]

Thanks for the advice and comments. I ended up making some decisions, and some good fortune allowed me to plant the tank pretty heavily. I started another thread if you want to see what I did with it.

Here is the link:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...nk-pictures-and-lots-of-questions-144583.html

Nothing here is perfect, but it will certainly be a learning process




By the way, is there a better way of linking to another thread?????

to the moderators: should I combine these threads???