male or female dempsy?

[robyndarlene]

Its the biggest woose in my tank. Very docile, infact he/she even gets bullied.

 

[Rivers2k]

Hard to tell I think female. It would help if you could get a full side shot and a close up of the cheek area that would help. The female will have a blue beard the male will only fave a few specks of blue on the gill plate and more blue spangles over the side of the body.

I find Jacks aren't the aggressors that they are made out to be but they can finish a fight in no time. Also if the mood strikes him or her right that angel you have is gone. You wont even see it coming, teeth vs. no teeth and long fines.

 

[robyndarlene]

Hard to tell I think female. It would help if you could get a full side shot and a close up of the cheek area that would help. The female will have a blue beard the male will only fave a few specks of blue on the gill plate and more blue spangles over the side of the body.

I find Jacks aren't the aggressors that they are made out to be but they can finish a fight in no time. Also if the mood strikes him or her right that angel you have is gone. You wont even see it coming, teeth vs. no teeth and long fines.

My angels are paired and they nearly killed him/her twice when he/she was young. The dempsy is very afraid of the angels. And the angels are triple his size.

 

[robyndarlene]

Oh and it has a lot of blue around the face and the lips are blue. No blue really down the body

 

[robyndarlene]

Here's a better photo of it. The angela look small but their half way down the tank.

 

[Rivers2k]

Oh and it has a lot of blue around the face and the lips are blue. No blue really down the body

Most likely a female then.

 

[Rivers2k]

My angels are paired and they nearly killed him/her twice when he/she was young. The dempsy is very afraid of the angels. And the angels are triple his size.

That will change. The Jack will get twice the size of the angels. Jack grow pretty quickly. Yes and adult Angel can bully a juvenile anything but that is because they are babies. You may have tank where it works but you also may wake up one morning and have everything dead because your Jack had enough. Again Teeth vs no teeth and long flowing fins, bad combo.

 

[haleybeth30]

It's really hard to tell, pics are kind of dark. As mentioned females have blotches of blue on gill plates and lower face, with males it's speckles/dots and they have more all over. Another way to tell is dorsal fin longer, pointier but that way not as reliable

 

[haleybeth30]

what's tank size? rivers2k right, the jack m or f will eventually be a problem with the angels I'm afraid

 

[robyndarlene]

The tank is 75gallon long.
I've never had any issues raising them together. It depends on the over all temperment of your tank. I'm confident it will be fine.

 

[robyndarlene]

In this tank I have about 30 corys, the dempsy a severum a very small (1inch) flower horn, 5inch pair of angels, a fore eel, numerous gold dojos, breeding khuli loaches, hogg fin plecos, black skirt tetras, betas, and platties.
I have had NO issues with aggression. Sometimes people have to be pessimistic and say that there will be an issue. I've had a 8 inch dempsy in a tank with babies before and had no issues. It depends on the food types, where the fish like to hangout, and having enough hiding places for everyone to have their own space.

 

[haleybeth30]

I've never kept any of the fish above, except for cichlids, just know what I've read.. parameter and aggression was it's not supposed to work, but could.. to each their own.. it's just not a risk I'd be willing to take

 

[audigex]

The tank is 75gallon long.
I've never had any issues raising them together. It depends on the over all temperment of your tank. I'm confident it will be fine.

With respect, raising them together doesn't prevent aggression later. If you raise similar sized fish from young, they will naturally establish a dominance hierarchy with very little aggression and without you really noticing.

If, however, you raise a smaller fish (your JD) with larger fish (Angels) but the smaller eventually catches and surpasses the larger - as yours will, then the JD will suddenly be in a position of dominance and may go too far, especially if the angels try to defend their dominance.

And if I may, if the JD is being bullied by the angels, the temperament of your tank is semi-aggressive. Even if not, cichlid tanks are never calm. It is Cichlid nature to establish dominance, and a JD is not going to accept a smaller angelfish being dominant. As someone said, teeth vs no teeth and long fins is going to be highly unpleasant for your angels.

You may be lucky, every fish is an individual and you may find that your three happen to work later: but being confident of it being fine in a cichlid tank, especially one as imbalanced as this at adult sizes, is a little naive. I'm not saying you should take them out now or even necessarily later, but it is something you need to keep an eye on and you need a contingency plan: at the very least have a tank divider on standby to prevent deaths while you re-home the JD or Angels.

Your JD may be fine with the Angels later due to never thinking to challenge them... but if he isn't, the situation will change rapidly, probably overnight. One day the Angels will be keeping the JD down, the next he will decide to fight back, they'll lip-lock and then suddenly you'll have a JD bullying a much more vulnerable Angel.

And I'm sorry, but it is not pessimistic to expect aggression in a Cichlid tank. You currently have a small severum, a small JD and two non-adult Angels. Cichlid aggression changes dramatically as they get older. A young fish will have no territorial behaviour, an adult one (particularly the size of a JD) may decide it wants an entire 75G tank. Fish aren't people or dogs, they don't become friends with the fish they are in with, nor learn behaviour: they get to "puberty" and then it's all instinct and individual temperament. You don't know the temperament of your fish as adults, only juveniles.

I know how aggressive people can seem on forums regarding this sort of stuff: I'm really not trying to be a dick or tell you you're doing things wrong, I'm just trying to help you understand that just because things are fine with Cichlids in a community now, as an adult they can change dramatically: peace now is no indication whatsoever of later behaviour.

 

[Rivers2k]

The tank is 75gallon long.
I've never had any issues raising them together. It depends on the over all temperment of your tank. I'm confident it will be fine.

As said before you would not have seen problems as the Jacks were juveniles. A baby is not going to take after a bigger fish. But you will have problems with these fish as they get older.

With some fish it does matter the temperament of the tank like putting jacks with salvini, festea, green terror but angels and jacks no way. Angels wont be able to defend themselves, you wont even have time to prevent it. There wont be chasing once the jack decides to let into the angel it will be over.

Its like saying I am going to put a minow with a bass but my bass has a good temperament. Its not if but when they will die. But I have a feeling you wont heed our advice so good luck to your angels I give it 6 months max.

 

[Rivers2k]

In this tank I have about 30 corys, the dempsy a severum a very small (1inch) flower horn, 5inch pair of angels, a fore eel, numerous gold dojos, breeding khuli loaches, hogg fin plecos, black skirt tetras, betas, and platties.
I have had NO issues with aggression. Sometimes people have to be pessimistic and say that there will be an issue. I've had a 8 inch dempsy in a tank with babies before and had no issues. It depends on the food types, where the fish like to hangout, and having enough hiding places for everyone to have their own space.

Just read this post you are really set up for disaster. I am all for pushing the boundaries at times. I have committed the "sin" of keeping new world cichlids and African cichlids together with great success. But you have a Flowerhorn with a betta! Not trying to sounds like a jerk but that is the craziest thing I have heard to date! Seriously I cant believe I just read that. There are to many things wrong with your tank to even address. You really need to read up on your fish more before you just add things. Both for the sake of the fish and the frustration for yourself.

Just so you know Flowerhorns tear apart everything that is why they are usually homed alone. You are set up for disaster. you no longer had to worry about your jacks eating your angels. I am dumbfounded I will bow out now let us know how things go in about 6 months.

 

[audigex]

The OP unfortunately seems to regularly mitake juvenile-juvenile or adult-juvenile behaviour as being indicative of adult-adult behaviour: ie the current relationship between adult/near adult Angels and a Juvie JD, or the previous 8" (not fully grown) JD and babies of an unspecified species.

I didn't even spot the Betta in that tank, but I'd put money on the JD eating it if the Severum doesn't first. You can be as confident about aggression as you like, but make no mistake that a large cichlid will eat a small fish if it can catch it: and Betta aren't fast. Your Platys probably won't be far behind.

 

[robyndarlene]

If there is ever an issue and if I ever notice agression issues, I habe tanks set up to seperate them. As of now I am not worried.

 

[haleybeth30]

If you're preparing a tank, why not place angels, beta, tetra, cories into it once cycled.. just a suggestion. You could make that tank more wet up for them and your cories. (those guys need special requirements too and may be the first to go when FH or JD get testy or hungry)

 

[ole scratch]

Robyndarlene, u r coming across in a bad way with that last statement. I could raise a tiger with a lamb. But somewhere down the road that tiger is going to realize that it is a tiger and not a lamb. And then there is going to be blood and guts and red wool all over the place. And a happy, full tiger. It's ur tank, u can do what u want to. But doing some things because u r confident, isn't very responsible. Please do the right thing and go with either African cichlids or south American cichlids. Because S.A. and African cichlids do NOT play well together.

 

[Jmunroe]

If there is ever an issue and if I ever notice agression issues, I habe tanks set up to seperate them. As of now I am not worried.

Unfortunately it's not matter of if... it's a matter of when. Your level of experience with large mature cichlids has only been with the juvenile stage obviously. What you have now is totally different than what you will have when they start to mature. If I had a dollar every time someone put a bunch of juvi's together then said "hey they get along great" I'd be rich. I belong to a cichlid site that deals with large cichlids and I have seen alot of new people come there looking for help because their peaceful tank for months all of a sudden turned into a blood bath and they don't know why because " they got along so good". When these fish mature they turn. When young they even have a schooling instinct, which is for protection. I wish you luck but those of us with experience dealing with them when they get big and mature just know there is too many eggs( large cichlids) in there to not end up with a rotten egg. Especially with flower horns. They are just out right homicidal.