Yellow Labs

[Fishyfanatic]

I went to the fish store this morning to get a backing for my tank and saw that they had a big tank full of "Asst Africans" for $5.99 each. Normally I wouldn't even think about looking at the tank, but it had a bunch of yellow labs in it. The employee told me that they are pure yellow labs, but I didn't get any because she couldn't sex them for me. She basically said that if they have the egg spots then they are male, but I know that isn't always true in labs. I know that if the top black stripe is dark black, then it's a male, but if it is a lighter black, then it's female. But they all looked the same, a kind of light black color. BUT, they had black speck bars on their sides. The woman told me it was because of stress. Which makes me not want to buy them. They are of breeder size, which makes me want to get them. But I'm unsure if that's REALLY what the black speck bars are. I don't want to get a mix breed. Can anyone shed some light onto what exactly the black bars are?

[tetrin]

you are right on the egg spots. they are not a surefire way to sex them.
any employee would tell you that their fish were 'pure', even if they had no way of knowing.
the males generally have a lot more black on their pectoral and ventral fins. behavior could be another clue, but that's hard to base a decision on. i didn't find a lfs in my area where i could sex them.
what you could do is buy the bunch, and return the males as they grow in your tank. 150g is a BIG tank, and i think they would be okay.

i don't know much about bars. they might be a sign of stress. or they may be a result of a cross-breeds.

[Fishyfanatic]

I thought that it could be a slight cross breed, that's why I am questioning the bars. Anyone else have an idea?

We don't really have alot of room left in the 150. At the moment we are slightly understocked. The labs were going to put us right at slightly overstocked. I hate to buy a bunch of them at $6 a pop then take them back. They don't give store credit. Plus, I hate to give this store excess profit because they are not the best IMO. The owner is questionable and they are rude people. But it's the only one in the area that doesn't sell painted fish unless I drive an hour.

Today I was in a crabby mood (I'm sick) and the woman tried to sell me a "Zebra" Pleco. She told me it was pure and the real True Zebra. She was trying to take advantage of me (she's new) and had no clue that I actually do know a little bit about fish. Especially the True Zebra pleco since it is one of my favorite fish. She shows me a pleco that the white is tinted with gray, the black is light in color, and the stripes are wavy. And she wanted to sell it to me for $150. In the end, I made her look like an idiot. If I wouldn't have ever found AA, I would have been so naive as to believe that it was the real deal.

[greenmaji]

Or dr's offices tank has a yellow lab that has developed the dark strips since I was there last but he seems to have gotten a little purple in the jaw area.. Im thinking its a mixed breed fish.. I wouldnt chance it If I were you.. the local shops around here have very good looking yellow labs. I would think yours just got a bad batch.. HTH

[TankGirl]

Yellow labs are very hard to sex, and the black dorsal is not a definite indication, nor is the egg spot. I have gotten them before when the shop owner sexed them for me, and was nowhere near correct, and in fact got it completely opposite (wound up with 2 males and one female). Once grown the quality of each fish was very obvious, with the lower quality ones showing a "5 o'clock shadow" on their faces, sooty areas on their flanks, etc. that mostly showed up when stressed. Bars are normal under stress, but they should be very uniform and pale. Without bars, the fish should look absolutely Kodak film box yellow, very deep color, and not a pale lemon yellow. These fish are heavily tank bred so you get all kinds of variations in the "assorted" tanks. I'd avoid these fish, and if you want some quality labs get them from a reputable breeder.

They have to be vented to be sexed, which is difficult when dealing with juvies. I'd get 6 or so and remove the extras when you can identify a trio. If you have a large enough tank they might just all be able to live together, though, as they are not as aggressive as other mbuna.

[tetrin]

fishy, on a sidenote, i noticed a nimbochromis in your 150g. don't get the labs too small or they'll make great food for it. though i don't know how big it is currently, but be cautious.

[Fishyfanatic]

Thanks TG. I am going to just forego the labs. Their stripes were uniform, but I don't want to get a fish that could potentially be a mixed breed.

Tetrin- The Nimbochromis is actually not really all that aggressive. He's about 6 inches in length but he picks more on the Parrots than anything else. Last night they were really going at it, but stopped.....thankfully. This morning however, they are just avoiding each other. If he gets overly aggressive I'll have to get rid of him. I hate to do it because he's so beautiful, but I don't want to get rid of all the other fish just to keep him.

[tetrin]

well, you do have the space for it. so, you might be able to keep it after all. though i'm a little surprised that you found it in local shops. its cousin, n. venustus is far more common. well, most people do think its closer to a tyrannochromis, but who cares .
but keep in mind that, raising fry in that tank will be very difficult . but it might not harm adults as such.

[Fishyfanatic]

Actually if I did breed the labs I was going to grow them out in the 150 until they were of breeding size then purchase another tank for them to breed in.

If I could find a male venustus that would be perfect for my tank. But they are impossible to find around here...the males anyway.

I just got done searching www.malawimayhem.com and the picture that they have doesn't look anything like mine. Hmm. I never did double check the actual name. The lfs sold it to me as a Nimbochromis Fuscotaeniatus and I just trusted that they knew what it was since they had it labeled the scientific name. I know, I know, lfs people have no clue what they are talking about. What do you think it is? His head now is a full blue. It doesn't have the spotting.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/photop...cat=500&page=1

[tetrin]

identification is a really fishy business. i have actually never seen any of the nimbochromis species, everything's gathered from the net. being a novice with cichlids, i really have no clue.
and as they say, little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

let the fish mature a little bit more. it might be easier to id then...

[Fishyfanatic]

He's already a good 6+ inches. The largest in the tank.

[tetrin]

still i wouldn't venture a guess. i'd leave it to someone who has actually had these...

[Fishyfanatic]

Ok. And maybe the blue will end up covering his entire body like the male Nimbochromis polystigma. The blue started out non existant, he looked more like a livinstoni but now the blue is kind of like taking over. It is slowly covering his head blue. I dunno. Maybe it is a male linvinstoni.

[TankGirl]

It looks like a N. venustus to me, which is not a bad thing!. Here is a link to check out various possibilities.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profile...es.php?id=1160

Click on the "Images" tab and you can view various genders and ages to get a better idea. Also check out Nimbochromis livingstonii in the index and do a comparison.

[Fishyfanatic]

His dark swirls are starting to lighten up. I'll take a new pic and post it for comparison. I won't be able to do that until this evening. Thanks guys.

[Fishyfanatic]

In regards to the Livingstoni, It looks more like the male in the breeding dress than the Adult male.

[pinstripe]

The "profiles" page on Cichlid Forum shows at least one male yellow lab with dark bars.
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=713
I assume these fish are purebred although I don't really know.

[TankGirl]

They do get bars that are visible depending on their mood, like many cichlids.

[Fishyfanatic]

I just read an article on yellow labs

"There are plenty of bad strains out there - some with lots of black on the body and face. There is a morph with a whitish belly that is not as attractive. Don't be mislead into thinking that is a man-made strain. This is a naturally occurring morph that comes from Lion's Cove, along side the yellow lab we all know."

So this makes me think that the yellow labs that I saw are in fact just morphs.