A important read for hobbiests about hard coral protection

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There is a lot going on out there right now. If it all occurs, our hobby, as we know it, will be very different. Big list of SPS and LPS plus more and more fish being looked at as endangered.


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Yes. But even a crack down won't destroy the hobby. It will change it, but even now it's a frag market for corals. The issue is that a endangered coral may not be legal to even cultivate commercially if some get their way. They would say there's no way to tell wild collected then fraged, from cultivated. Fish are an even more complicated issue that no one is prepared for. Yet.


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We ( my reef club) just made a thousand dollar donation to this organization. I know cause I wrote the check. LOL There's alot of speculation going on right now as to what will be changed and to what degree. Hopefully the changes are in the best interest of the creatures as well as the hobbyist.

Our last meeting, two days ago we had four speakers and each one spoke in depth about conservation, even Julian Sprung who usually talks about keeping a fish tank was 110% for the conservation effort. Mike Palleta(sp) also spoke for over an hour about this and the potential of what could come to pass if we dont start doing things differently.

These guys, the top in their field are pushing for hobbyists to take more responsibility or what we take for granted will be taken away from us.
 
I am also for it. I hope they stop allowing us to take anything from the ocean. This hobby is quite detrimental to our fishy friends.
 
We started talking about this on this forum years ago. We either do it, or it will get done by others.


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I am all for conservation. I'd be okay if they stopped importing...but the idea that these should not be cultivated commercially or individually makes zero sense to me.

Let's say I own certain corals on the list and I grow them and frag them. Aren't there now more of that coral (and nothing in the ocean was touched/ harmed). IMO, that is the way to go. Same idea with some of the fish that can be bred here. Making it illegal to even own said corals or fish (especially if you already had them) is crazy.

I have not heard if the rest of the world is on board with this. If the US stops, but everywhere else stays the same, does that make a big enough dent to actually save all these species?


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For the most part it would just push things underground a bit more than it is. With the prices they way they are right now we're already starting to see more and more frag swaps and people connecting via the internet to trade frags. Clown fish spawn pretty easy in captivity, I doubt there will be a time that you can't get one via a message board if you really want one. People don't stop producing items if there is a demand. If hobbiests want acro frags and will pay for them, others will frag their acro's for them. There really aren't many banned substances that you can't get your hands on, its just wether or not its "legit" really.

But no matter what, unless they ban coral and fish completely, you can make an amazing reef tank out of any of the hundreds of varieties of coral/fish offered. If you take afew out of circulation it really doesn't matter...
 
I am all for conservation. I'd be okay if they stopped importing...but the idea that these should not be cultivated commercially or individually makes zero sense to me.

Let's say I own certain corals on the list and I grow them and frag them. Aren't there now more of that coral (and nothing in the ocean was touched/ harmed). IMO, that is the way to go. Same idea with some of the fish that can be bred here. Making it illegal to even own said corals or fish (especially if you already had them) is crazy.

I have not heard if the rest of the world is on board with this. If the US stops, but everywhere else stays the same, does that make a big enough dent to actually save all these species?


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As I mentioned earlier, the problem is coming up with a way to insure the frag you were buying came from a cultivated colony or a wild one. Same with fishes. With the exception of custom morphed clown fish, it's impossible to tell a wild caught fish from a tank raised one.


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I bet ORA has a way to prove that all their coral/fish are captive and not wild. I mean obviously the orignals were but they've been cultivating for years now. I bet they'd agree to a 10% release of all their non blended fish back into the wild. They should probably leave the morphs in tanks but some true clowns could go back into the wild...
 
Let's say I own certain corals on the list and I grow them and frag them. Aren't there now more of that coral (and nothing in the ocean was touched/ harmed). IMO, that is the way to go. Same idea with some of the fish that can be bred here. Making it illegal to even own said corals or fish (especially if you already had them) is crazy.
This is clearly not the case though. You see, when any one of us makes this hobby attractive to others, we are helping destroy the reefs, because not everyone is going to want to buy aquacultured. As a matter of fact, I lost count of the people who came to me when I was selling who wanted large colonies instead of little frags. Where are they going to get these?

Not to mention the carbon footprint associated with this hobby or any other. It all adds to the pile.

I'm for making it illegal to take another living thing from the ocean. Whatever we have here now, is enough. If it's not, then we are doing it wrong.
 
How would they do it? Just curious.


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They'd probably have to apply for some sort of grow licence or something. Then be inspected and report on how many fish were born, that sort of thing. I don't know for certain but if you can buy certified angus beef from the USA I'm sure you can certify a clownfish from the USA. Dog breeders can produce papers that are certified for breed and purity. Food is certified organic. There are ways for sure...
 
Dog breeders can swap out dogs and mix in other things and do all sorts of things with those papers. You can't trust them.
BTW, ORA's colonies were all wild at one point. A ban on collecting would be the end of any new corals from ORA.
 
I agree, especially high rollers want big pieces and have no patience. But IMO, I could care less for their needs. I feel most of them are into "statement" tanks and care little about the behind the scenes aspects. That's for the hired help to worry about...

Those of us that are dedicated can grow coral heads that are nicer than anything wild collected. That's what I'm doing, I'm not fragging (yet) but I am growing out big colonies that I will eventually sell for big numbers to said high rollers. In my case I can supply photographic evidence it was captive grown. What's a 12" GARF bonsai worth? A lot.

There is similarity with tree farms. Well healed or just impatient people will pay a high price to buy a big tree grown elsewhere. Instant gratification is a good business to be in.

But my bet is they will make it simple for themselves. When a coral or fish is added to the list there would be no trade in that animal anymore. Hopefully they will be smarter than that. We'll all end up hiding in our basements like pot farmers trading illicit frags!


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No one will sell a 12" GARF Bonsai because there's no one who will pay what it's worth. You are MUCH better off cutting that thing in 100 pieces, or cutting 10 pieces a month, for the next 10 years. A guy that will even offer you a grand for that coral is still stealing it as far as I'm concerned.
 
You may be right. Luckily I don't make my living doing this. Guess I'll just populate my 1000 gallon reef (to come...) with my big corals.


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On the bright side, this might encourage companies to spend the money and research to start breed these fish and corals in captivity. There are some saltwater fish that just can't be bred in captivity. But with the proper finding and equipment I think most fish could be captive bred. It's simply not as economical seeing as its cheaper just to take the fish out of the ocean.

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Hopefully some inverts will eventually be captive bred too.

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