calcium vs alkalinity

[BTA]

BTW, I think this quote:

I do not believe you should be buying a saltmix and then need to correct the chemistry.

should be written in GOLD. I never dreamed that could be possible.

 

[steve-s]

Kalkwasser is best used to maintain the levels, not raise them. If you need to adjust the chem, best use a buffer for alk and a CaCl product for calcium. It will be more effective and less problems getting to the right levels faster. Just be sure to read the instructions so you do not overdo the additions.

Im pretty sure that is what the red sea product is.

The Red Sea product is a kalkwasser aka limewater product and meant for maintenance. It is not good for correcting improper chemistry.

Reef Success Calk is claimed to be a balanced supplement aimed to replenish calcium and carbonates in the right proportions at the same rate as they're removed by invertebrates. It's a maintenance supplement designed for regular daily or weekly use on water with an initial calcium level of 380 - 420ppm. The recommend technique for dosing Calk is to monitor the calcium and alkalinity levels daily for a week to monitor their decline and determine the approximate rate at which they are being utilised by the inverts and algae present.

It's dosed at a rate of around 0.5g per 100 l./22 gal., but you need to test the alkalinity regularly and make adjustments to the amount added depending on the results. No details on constituents or concentration are provided so we can't comment on how much it's likely to cost to use or how effective it is at maintaining balanced calcium and alkalinity levels.

As you can see by there own product statement, it is really only recommended for maintaining the levels....

What kind of test kit?

red sea calcium test and alkalinity pro.

I am not familiar with this tests accuracey so I cannot comment but Salifert or SeaChem may yield more accurate results...

do you think it is best to adjust the alk and cal in make up water prior to adding it to the tank after a water change?

Ensuring your chemisrty is up to par prior to adding to the tank wouls be better IME. It's easier to correct a small problem than a larger one but as I said, why buy a salt that needs correcting? I am not suggesting the mix be perfect, there is no such thing. Just that the chemisrty be properly balanced and in the right range.

Cheers
Steve

 

[steve-s]

Douggie: IO = Instant Ocean salt

I do not believe you should be buying a saltmix and then need to correct the chemistry.

Steveeeee:
Man, your answer is mind-boggling!!! You mean to say you've found a salt that is perfect??? (no need for kalk or buffer if you do regular water changes).

We can all dream but there is no such animal. What I am refering to is the chem balance between the alk/Ca. They may never be what we want them to be or at the level we maintain the tank but should be in the proper ratio ranges for alk/Ca in order for the saltmix to be beneficial to the overall chemistry in the tank.

Each tanks consumption of elements will greatly vary depending on CaCO3 animals and possible equipment that will remove it. If the salmix we add is not chemically in the correct proportions going in, then there are more problems later on.

Cheers
Steve

 

[douggiestyle]

The Red Sea product is a kalkwasser aka limewater product and meant for maintenance. It is not good for correcting improper chemistry.
Red Sea Reef Success Calk wrote:
Reef Success Calk is claimed to be a balanced supplement aimed to replenish calcium and carbonates in the right proportions at the same rate as they're removed by invertebrates. It's a maintenance supplement designed for regular daily or weekly use on water with an initial calcium level of 380 - 420ppm. The recommend technique for dosing Calk is to monitor the calcium and alkalinity levels daily for a week to monitor their decline and determine the approximate rate at which they are being utilised by the inverts and algae present.

It's dosed at a rate of around 0.5g per 100 l./22 gal., but you need to test the alkalinity regularly and make adjustments to the amount added depending on the results. No details on constituents or concentration are provided so we can't comment on how much it's likely to cost to use or how effective it is at maintaining balanced calcium and alkalinity levels.

As you can see by there own product statement, it is really only recommended for maintaining the levels....

im not chalenging you but, what is the difference between maintaining what being removed and bringing to levels needed and then maintaining it.

eg (or is it ie i always get confused) if "my levels are perfect for my needs and the ca and alk levels drop below that and i add something to maintain my preferred levels", as opposed to "my levels are lower than what i wish and i add something to bring them up to where i wish to maintain them" to me they are the same statement. low on ca, add ca.

 

[douggiestyle]

It is not good for correcting improper chemistry.

sorry, but what is good for correcting improper chemistry.

 

[steve-s]

im not chalenging you but, what is the difference between maintaining what being removed and bringing to levels needed and then maintaining it.

eg (or is it ie i always get confused) if "my levels are perfect for my needs and the ca and alk levels drop below that and i add something to maintain my preferred levels", as opposed to "my levels are lower than what i wish and i add something to bring them up to where i wish to maintain them" to me they are the same statement. low on ca, add ca.

I think you are missing what I am trying to explain or I have not communicated it clearly. Kalkwasser is a balanced additive. It maintains both alkalinity/calcium and raises them in equal amounts. When those levels become unbalanced, a balaced additive that maintains is not as effective at raising those levels independantly. Basically if your levels are already balanced and at the prefered level, the kalkwasser will keep them there if used in the proper amounts and frequencey based on the rate of depletion. If the levels of alk and Ca become reversed, the kalkwasser will not be effective at correcting them.

It is not good for correcting improper chemistry.

sorry, but what is good for correcting improper chemistry.

That would depend on which is out of balance with the other. Buffer for alk and CaCl for Ca.

Cheers
Steve

 

[douggiestyle]

OK.. i think i do understand now!! my alk is good but ca is low so i need to add ca only or get everything balanced and then raise ca and alk to the levels i need.

every thing may be out of balance in my tank because until recently ive been using filtered tap water ( but not ro/di water). i have hard water so alk is all ready high before adding salt mix.

am i cool now?

 

[steve-s]

am i cool now?

Cheers
Steve

 

[douggiestyle]

noggin.... dude

thanks steve

 

[bizzybeas]

Not to frustrate you but I found that when I was doing weekly water changes with IO I was unable to fix my CA levels. I tried dosing with everything on the market to raise my CA levels without success. When I changed salt to tropic marin I no longer had to correct my pH or my CA. I do need to dose a little to maintain both my ALK and CA but they are in balance, meaning the ratio between the two is more favorable. My tank is much easier to maintain since switching salts!!!!

 

[steve-s]

Not to frustrate you but I found that when I was doing weekly water changes with IO I was unable to fix my CA levels. I tried dosing with everything on the market to raise my CA levels without success. When I changed salt to tropic marin I no longer had to correct my pH or my CA. I do need to dose a little to maintain both my ALK and CA but they are in balance, meaning the ratio between the two is more favorable. My tank is much easier to maintain since switching salts!!!!

If that kind of situation arises, you may also wish to check the <<magnesium levels>> in the tank as well as the saltmix. Again, many saltmixes fall short of proper levels of Mg and often require dosing in a system with many CaCO3 animals and tanks with plenty of LR with healthy coralline growth. I would actually suspect in the case of the Tropic Marine, is that it corrected the deficiencey and allowed the chem to come up. This is moreso true of low alk rather than Ca though.

Cheers
Steve

 

[bizzybeas]

I actually did test the mag levels and they were okay. Also, I had no problem with the alk levels, hence my frustration!

 

[douggiestyle]

red sea recomends to use trace elements when dosing to help eliminate such problems.

 

[BTA]

How does Aquacraft compare to these salts? That's what I am using along with IO. I am rethinking the IO but I have 300 lbs of IO sitting around!

 

[jamal-188]

DOH! I just bought a 200gallon bucket of IO, Steve-s, what salt mix do you recommend? I know certain salt mixes may be better depending on what's in the tank etc.. but an all around good mix if IO is not ideal.

 

[steve-s]

I am not trying to scare everyone out of their prefered saltmix nor am I trying to purposely knock IO salts. All I am trying to do is point out these issues can cause problems with the chemistry and should be watched for. That said though, I have heard great things about Tropic Marine. Personally, I use Kent.

Cheers
Steve

 

[douggiestyle]

kent has a saltmix additive available to bring the chemistry up to par.

 

[steve-s]

kent has a saltmix additive available to bring the chemistry up to par.

Which is

Cheers
Steve

 

[douggiestyle]

jeez i dont know but will find out

 

[douggiestyle]

osmo-prep