Completely Filterless!? POLL

[lando]

"Filterless" is really vauge. I guess I do not have a lot of mechanical filtration, but do use a lot of biological and sometimes chemcial filtration. I have a a 72gal tank with three maxi-jet 1200s and about 170lbs of LR. I have a 15gal converted wet/dry with 30lbs of LR rubble, a skimmer and chemi-pure in it. I also add a PURA filtration pad for water polishing once a month for a week or so.

[Melissamustang]

I do not consider a sump filtration. I have a sump and refugium. HTH

I voted....hubby responded..lol

[Jermz79]

Originally Posted by lando

"Filterless" is really vauge. I guess I do not have a lot of mechanical filtration, but do use a lot of biological and sometimes chemcial filtration. I have a a 72gal tank with three maxi-jet 1200s and about 170lbs of LR. I have a 15gal converted wet/dry with 30lbs of LR rubble, a skimmer and chemi-pure in it. I also add a PURA filtration pad for water polishing once a month for a week or so.

I guess what I was tryin to say is ....

Basically no sort of filtration at all. No HOB filters, no Canister Filters, no overflow to wet/dry. Although now I'm finding out most people consider a sump, skimmer and converted HOB refugiums as "Filtration" but not mechanical!

What I really want to do is lose the HOB filter completely and run nothing but LR and PH's for water movement and possibly a HOB type skimmer ...
Possibly????
I checked out some skimmers ... The Aqua C Remora and the Coralife Super Skimmer which seems to get real good reviews from a lot of people.

LOL ... I'm starting to confuse myself! :P

[ntswift]

I have a Remora Aqua C and a HOB fuge. So far so good!

[lando]

Basically no sort of filtration at all. No HOB filters, no Canister Filters, no overflow to wet/dry. Although now I'm finding out most people consider a sump, skimmer and converted HOB refugiums as "Filtration" but not mechanical!

What I really want to do is lose the HOB filter completely and run nothing but LR and PH's for water movement and possibly a HOB type skimmer ...
Possibly????

What you are reffering to is commonly know as the "Berlin" method of filtration. As the name suggests, it has it's origins in Germany. The only filtration used in this method is lots of LR and aggressive skimming. Powerheads for movement do help.

[Jermz79]

I think that's what my plan will be. For now I'm looking into just the Remora, keeping my eyes peeled for someone who has upgraded recently nudge nudge!

ntswift ... don't you have a 29gal as well. got any pics of your setup? preferably top down.

[greenmaji]

A good skimmer and LR + plenty of flow would be the burlin method and its been done plenty.

I wouldn't go without any of the parts of the method though.. the skimmer keeps DOC's from being sunk into the sandbed and absorbed into the LR.

the fuge was an addition for a more "natural" way of doing things to make NO2 removal easier..

If you have to do without a sump.. the remora line or the coral life super skimmers (they will do HOB) would do.

[Jermz79]

The only thing I'm realizing about the CSS series of skimmer is it looks to me like the whole unit sits in the tank. They are a pretty good size skimmer and of course in the 29gallon I don't have a lot of space to begin with.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I have read I do believe the whole unit sits in the tank?

and thanks greenmaji .... that is exactly what I was getting at, can you go with just LR and plenty of flow? I'm hearing the answer is no and at the very least a skimmer is needed!

[tecwzrd]

The CSS can either HOB or go in a sump but the part that is in the tank is fairly large ie: (pump and skimmer discharge box)



I think the regular AquaC Remora would be less obtrusive and should be fine for your 29 gal. They run around $160.00

[Florida8]

You should read about the Berlin method, which is what I used when I had my 1st sw tank, a 55g. Lots of flow and FAITHFUL water changes and you can go 100% free of filtration with 2lbs pg LR and a proper sand bed.
I only added a HOB with carbon to polish and clear water... but it wasn't a must.

[Jermz79]

WOW Tec ... that sucker is HUGE!!! I think I'm going with the Remora ... they look more sleek! and have better reviews overall.


Thanks everyone!

[Civicman86]

I have a 30 gallon that has no filtration. Just two tank hooked together for more water volume and water changes.

[Psychographic]

I have a 30 that pumps from the DT through my skimmer to a 10 fuge and then back to the DT.

[ckmn101]

I voted "pure insanity" but I do see that numerous people do good w/o a "filter." I have a canister per recommendation of my lfs. Now I see I could have got about 10extra lb of lr for what I paid for the canister.
I also tend to lean towards carbon and I like the mechanical cause I get a lot of crap out when I rinse out the foam too.
I think- to each his(or her) own!

[AMANIQU77]

Now, is "filterless" (Skimmer, LR, and ph only setups) feasible for reef tanks with a significant number of fish (or a significant bioload)?

I know of someone who has LR, bear bottom, powerheads, and a Deltec skimmer. And that's it. But he has more corals than fish. He probably only has a mandarin, a yellow tang, and clowns in his 100G tank. No sumps etc.

There are lots of examples at reefcentral as well. Chris (the guy who had the setup above) said that he has all those powerheads moving the water in order for detrius not to settle at the bottom. Then the Deltec skimmer skims the c r a p out of em.

I really believe in making things as simple and as efficient as possible.

When hobbyists go for sumps and fuges, auto top offs, complex electricals, Kalkwasser setups, complex plumbing, closed loops, etc, etc, that they're just really into the hobby of creation. And there's nothing wrong with that. I do see some amazing setups due to efficient use of all the above. But I believe that their fondness in the hobby is more towards the DIY fun than the specimen fun. I don't want to generalize, though, because I've met the ones that use the above and are very passionate aquarium activists as well.

It's just that when I see someone who placed so many hours, efforts, disasters, leaks, and all that, and looks somewhat similar to a setup I ended up with, I start to question the mileage covered for a somehow similar destination.

With that said, rock on, for people that enjoy DIY. They are all amazing masterpieces that are clearly fun to see.

[lando]

Now, is "filterless" (Skimmer, LR, and ph only setups) feasible for reef tanks with a significant number of fish (or a significant bioload)?

Sure, provided the LR ratio is up over 2lbs/gal and you adhere to a regular water change schedule. Substrate may also play a role. LS may be a better option then CC. Going bare-bottom allows for easy manual removal of any detritus, personally, I do not really like the looks of them as much.

[Devilishturtles]

FWIW, when I first started my 29 gallon I was filterless. I had only lr, ls, and 3 powerheads for current. It didn't work for me. I had algae problem, cyano, etc. I'm using my tap water also, and can't use an ro/di unit becuase I have a small capacity well.

Adding a skimmer made all the difference. Now I run a skimmer and 2 powerheads, 2 pound per gallon live sand (it is now, anyways) and only 1 pound per gallon live rock, with more on the way. It works well for me too.

AMANIQU77, I think you summed up things well. Me, I like simplicity and ease, and this "berlin" system works well for me. I never did quite understand bare bottom tanks, when the goal for most hobbyists is to recreate a natural habitat...but to each their own.