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Old 05-30-2006, 08:49 PM   #1
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Coral Advice

I currently have a 20-gallon tank with a torch coral and about 15 mushrooms (frilly, purple, and red) and was planning on buying another coral this Friday. I want to know which corals you guys would recommend. I want one that's hardy, would thrive well in a smaller tank, and perferrably be interesting and pretty as well. I also need one that will do well with a false percula clownfish, a rusty angel, a jawfish, a manderin, and a scissortail goby as well as emerald crabs, an anenome crab, a cleaner shrimp, a brittle star, and other stuff.
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Old 05-30-2006, 09:15 PM   #2
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Zoanthids. Take a look at the variety, the colors....and they're hardy, too. Well....start out looking here:

http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?modul...m&g2_itemId=15
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Old 05-30-2006, 09:27 PM   #3
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dont wanna come down on you but you have all those fish in a 20g?
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Old 05-30-2006, 09:28 PM   #4
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Yeah I had considered those but aren't those poisonous.
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Old 05-30-2006, 10:21 PM   #5
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Hey, you have an anem. crab? Do u have an anemone? If no, where does the crab live? I really want an anem. crab but i won't buy it til i get more info. about it.

Zoos are considered poisonous to u if u touch them with ur bare skin. If u handle them with care (wearing gloves, etc.), there shouldn't be any problem. I like zoos alot. They are "very" hardy and grow pretty rapidly (IME). They come in a great variety of coloration too.

Also, Xenia is a pretty coral. Fairly easy to keep.

HTH
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Old 05-30-2006, 10:33 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by diabeeteez14
Yeah I had considered those but aren't those poisonous.
They are "poisonous." I believe that only some people are susceptible to the poison, though. I've handled them so many times that I have concluded that I don't react to their toxin, but I've heard that if someone is sensitive to it, it can be very serious, so it's not something to be frivolous with. Still, this is not a reason to exclude them from your reef, IMO, and you can take certain precautions like wearing gloves and making sure you wash your hands thoroughly after handling any zoanthids and before you might put your hands to your mouth, eyes, etc.
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Old 05-30-2006, 10:36 PM   #7
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Before you go any further hackteck asked a good question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hackteck
dont wanna come down on you but you have all those fish in a 20g?
The angel alone is recomended for at least a 30g and a 20g will never support the pods population to feed a mandarin unless is is hooked up to a large fuge.

You mentioned ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by diabeeteez14
and other stuff.
Your "my info" link seems out of date as it states you have a CB, six line and anenome. Please update it and describe your setup to include lighting and filtration so we can better assist.

Not trying to beat you up, just help and save you some of the mistakes we have made. Before you get any other corals you probably need to adjust your stocking.

HTH,
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Old 05-30-2006, 10:59 PM   #8
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Hey, you have an anem. crab? Do u have an anemone? If no, where does the crab live? I really want an anem. crab but i won't buy it til i get more info. about it.
Well the anenome crab has been around for about 2 or 3 months and is doing great. It chose a rock almost completely covered in mushroom polyps and found a larger purple one to cover it self. When feeding time comes (DT with phytoplankton) it comes from under the polyp and filters the water with fanlike arms. It's great to watch and is a real conversation piece. Even in my small 20 gal it has molted twice and has almost doubled in size since I purchased it from my LFS. I would recommend buying one. HTH.

To everyone else I'll take all you're comments into consideration. About my overstocked tank everyone seems to be doing well and a few I just got yesterday. I'll see how it goes and I'll play it by ear. Thanks!
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Old 05-31-2006, 07:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
and a few I just got yesterday

You put more fish in yesterday? Which ones? How long have the various fish been in there.How often are you feeding DT's? Just sounds like you should REALLY be watching your nitrates. If they really are in check and at acceptable levels, you should take some time to explain yor setup. How old a tank, filtration methods. How much LR? Substrate type and depth. Stuff like that.

Sorry for so many questions, but I'd sure like to know how you are doing what you're doing.

I'll betcha lots of us would like to know how that many fish can do well in a 20g tank and would like to be able to do that too. Lemme guess, you got a 50g refugium running off that bad boy , right? 8)
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Old 05-31-2006, 10:51 AM   #10
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Well the mandarin, jawfish, and neon goby were just added Monday and I feed them DT's every other day with flakes everyday. The scissortail and clownfish have been there since January, the angel has been there only about one month and the others like I mentioned Monday. The nitrates and everything else is doing well (tested it at my LFS) and the tank is pretty old but I've only had it 6 or 7 months. The neighbor who gave it to me had it running for several years before handing to me. The substrate is just regular live sand about 1-2 inches in depth and the amount of liverock is not much but I can't tell you exactly how much because it came with the tank. And abouth the refugium sorry but no. I have just a regular Bioball filtration system. Also, the fish can exist happily because they each have their own "area". The jawfish made its home already in the live sand, the neon is in the LR, the mandarin on the floor, and the angel, clownfish, and scissortail swim around. I also have a great cleanup crew with 15 blue-legs, a fairly large red-leg, 10 turbo snails, two emerald crabs, an anenome crab, a brittle starfish, and the cleaner shrimp and neon goby for the fish and to control ich. The crabs help to contain my red bubble algae problem. I think that answers all your questions.
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:03 AM   #11
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Thanks for the info on the anem. crab. One more question tho, has anything try to beat it up? I heard these crabs are very weak against aggression right? Thanks alot diabeeteez

About ur stocking, yes that's alot of fish in a 20. As long as u keep ur chemistry stable, everything should be fine, but that would be a hard task. Good luck
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:15 AM   #12
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Please do some reading as it appears you are well intentioned, but a bit misinformed.

I would highly encourage you to not add anything more to your current set-up and consider returning a couple of inhabitants. In particular the mandarin and angel which long term need a much larger aquarium.

The angle will just get to big and the mandarin will die of starvation due to lack of food. They do not readily take prepared foods and need pods to survive. I am not the only one that will tell you this.

Please take the time to read this thread which deals with a very similar situation to yours:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=75208

It is very easy to get excited in the hobby and want to add new species, but this is not the best thing for the fish. The key to SW is patience and go slow. I would encourage you to think about saving the $ you are spending on live stock and save up for a larger set-up which it sounds like will better meet your needs.

In the meantime do as much reading as you can. The challenge with this hobby is so many rush in and burn out quick when they meet adversity.

In the meantime 3-4 small nano fish with corals and LR can make a nice setup. You really need to look at your 20g as a nano set-up.

Here are some examples of appropriate fish:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/s...fm?pCatId=2124

Again, not trying to beat you up, just trying to save you from mistakes I have made do to lack of knowledge in the past.

Good Luck,
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:23 AM   #13
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Thanks afilter I'll take that into account. About the anenome crab fish Frik it has never been bothered by anything and is doing great.
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:58 AM   #14
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IMO that mandarin isnt going to last unless your adding pods into the tank. Thats more fish than I have in my 60g

No one mentioned lighting or flow, what do ya got?
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Old 05-31-2006, 12:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishFrik
About ur stocking, yes that's alot of fish in a 20. As long as u keep ur chemistry stable, everything should be fine, but that would be a hard task. Good luck
That is the point indeed, you have a huge bioload in a small tank and that is a VERY unforgiving situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishFrik
Also, Xenia is a pretty coral. Fairly easy to keep.
This is not a coral I would recommend for a small tank. It has been known to periodically *crash* and that would be disastrous in a tank that small. It also grows and spreads like a bad weed and would soon take over, killing other corals in its path.
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Old 05-31-2006, 12:24 PM   #16
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I highly suggest that you read up on zoos. They are very interesting corals and come in many colors. However most people have no idea about how dangerous they can be. Don't tanek this as a hit to the coral cause they are beautiful and can be eisly kept but you need to use good judgment and caution when handelign them.

People on this board and other boards and all across the fishkeepign community still amaze me when they talk about zoos. I am not expert but I do try to read up and look for information on things before I put them in my tank. I am not always the best about doign that but when it comes to zoos I have done a good amount of research.

Still people liek Avi amaze me with their comments:


Quote:
They are "poisonous." I believe that only some people are susceptible to the poison, though. I've handled them so many times that I have concluded that I don't react to their toxin, but I've heard that if someone is sensitive to it, it can be very serious, so it's not something to be frivolous with. Still, this is not a reason to exclude them from your reef, IMO, and you can take certain precautions like wearing gloves and making sure you wash your hands thoroughly after handling any zoanthids and before you might put your hands to your mouth, eyes, etc.
YOu are right about wearign gloves and may be right about how people react to this toxin but you make it sound liek it is no big deal.

the real story is that these corals contain a toxin called PLAYTOXIN. It is 1 of the top two most deadly toxins know to man. IT can kill in very small amounts. Typically to be affected by it you need to have some sort of break in the skin for it to enter into your body. SO most people never seem to be affected and develop a feelig nthat since they have handeld it before and nothign happened that they are immune to it. However it is most liklety due to the fact that they have no breaks in the skin. But if you do get a cut or bite your nails and cuticles like I do you will be more suseptable.

I have read stories about animal deaths (a dog) due to this toxin and some human experiences where a man has almost died from a very, very small dose of this toxin. SO the threat is there. You just need to be aware of it and play it safe. ALwasy use gloves and always wash your hands after workign on the tank. Jsut be extra safe and you should be fine. But be careful. I have even heard a a man who ended up i nthe hospital becasue he swuashed a small nudibranch that had been feeding on the zoos - this nudi contained enough of the playtoxin in its small body to send the mans life systems into a frenzy (racing heart, sweat, high blood pressure, faint, closign of the respitory tract)
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Old 05-31-2006, 12:29 PM   #17
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Gnarly....Is there a list of toxic corals? All I have right now are Torch, Frogspawn, and afew softies.
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Old 05-31-2006, 06:47 PM   #18
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jasno, u scared me T.T Is it possible for this toxic to diffuse into the water in the tank? I dont usually wear gloves when i move my zoos but i don't touch them tho. I move the rock that they grow on. I hope it can't diffuse in the water or else if my any of my fish gets a scratch... RIP

Thanks for the info on the crab diabeeteez
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Old 05-31-2006, 07:25 PM   #19
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Well the mandarin, jawfish, and neon goby were just added Monday and I feed them DT's every other day with flakes everyday
I am not sure why you are feeding the DTs. The fish will not benefit from feeding DTs. It is ment for filter-feeding animals, which your fish are not. It may have some benefit for the anemone crab, but not much. It is very important not to over feed DTs as it can defrade water quality in a tank of your size very quickly.

I agree with the others in that the manderine is not a good choice for your tank. They really do require large systems with 100+ lbs of LR and a mature tank to survive long-term. I would strongly urge you to bring tht one back to the LFS.
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Old 05-31-2006, 07:49 PM   #20
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I couldn't keep a Mandarin in a 55g I can't see it living long in a 29g. Sorry to be a bearer of bad news.
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