Finally Ready For A sump!! Answers Please!

[revhtree]

I have asked some of the questions before, and I cannot find where that post is. Anyway, I am now really ready to set up my sump, and I have some xtra cash so I am going to do it. I a aware of the articles out there I just need some answers from you guys.

1. How much is it going to cost aprox. to set up my sump with a rubbermaid tub about 18g? I have one corner built in overflow, with 2 holes at the bottom of it, with what looks to be 1 1/2 inch in diameter.

2. What size pump? 75g tank

3. I want auto top off, how much will that cost?

4. Can I do this? I am a complete dummy to the sump thing. I dont know where to begin. I dont even know wha plumbing to get, and where to put it.

5. Can you give me a list of all the parts I will need to do this? I complete list for a sump with an auto top off.

Help me please.

 

[revhtree]

Bump! I'm shameless!

 

[BillyZ]

1. How much is it going to cost aprox. to set up my sump with a rubbermaid tub about 18g? I have one corner built in overflow, with 2 holes at the bottom of it, with what looks to be 1 1/2 inch in diameter. More than a dollar... less than a thousand You can do it fairly cheap. The biggest cost will be the Return pump. The rubbermaid tub and PVC for the plumbing are pretty cheap. If you get flexible tubing... thats a little more pricey.

2. What size pump? 75g tank Depends on how much flow you want it to have and how far below the tank the sump will sit. Do a google for "Mag pump head height flow" and that will tell you what size to get based on the answer to those questions.

3. I want auto top off, how much will that cost? <$50. You can get a float switch for apx $7-8 on ebay and you can get a solonoid from home depot. (not sure of price). and theplumbing bits should be relativly inexpensive.

4. Can I do this? I am a complete dummy to the sump thing. I dont know where to begin. I dont even know wha plumbing to get, and where to put it. Yes you can. Take your time, plan it out and DRY FIT EVERYTHING to test for fit before a single drop of glue hits those parts!

5. Can you give me a list of all the parts I will need to do this? I complete list for a sump with an auto top off. Nope. too many variables. Get a piece of paper and sketch out your plan. Then go over your sketch and label each piece. Then turn that into a shopping list. Then post your sketch and shopping list here and we'll tell you how well you did!

 

[revhtree]

See what I really dont understand is how you get the water to stay at one level, and inside the overflow does the water just flow over the edge and go out the hole in the bottom?

 

[revhtree]

I was also wondering if I could set a wet/dry into the rubbermade as kinda a baffle deal?

 

[BillyZ]

Overflow: Build one of these, http://www.dursostandpipes.com/

(the second hole in your overflow can either be for an additional standpipe, or for the return water plumbing. If you use it for return plumbing, the plumbing simply goes up through the voerflow and is directed over the top of the water.

Same level explained:
the pump will continually pump water into the tank that will spill into the overflow. This way the main tank is always at the same water level (the top of the overflow).

The water in the overflow travels down the standpipe and into your sump. It's then pumped back up to the tank.

You will install the float switch in the sump so that when the water level in the sump drops (from evaporation) the float switch activates a solonoid that supplies water to your RO filter which in turn re-fills your sump. As the water level rises, the float switch will shut off, which shuts off the solonoid which stops the RO filter.

[edit]corrected link[/edit]

 

[revhtree]

Oh Ok!! I think I am making it harder than it really is.

Ok, I can do without the floatswitch for now.

What about the idea of placing an old wet/dry filter container in the sump to house like a refugium?

Also how would you know how much water to add and stuff?

 

[revhtree]

Hey in that link of the standpipe that cuts down on the sound of the water, the pipe goes straight up then has that little elbow where the water enters.
The pipe goes on up. How far does it go up, and is it just an open pipe at the end to keep it primed?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. Kudos to you!

 

[revhtree]

It looks like the return hole is 1 1/2" And the drain hole is 1 3/4".

Also how many gallons an hour flow would I want?

 

[BillyZ]

Also how many gallons an hour flow would I want?
Depends on what other equipment in your tank is creating water flow. you'll want probably a minimum of 5x of the total sump volume in flow to keep enough flow going through it. (nothing wrong with having more!)
and I think you're exactly right on the hole sizes in regards to what they are for.

The pipe goes on up. How far does it go up, and is it just an open pipe at the end to keep it primed?
Take a look at the "make one yourself" page on that site. Gives all the parts in detail. It only goes up an inch or so and has a small hole drilled into it. This is only there to allow air to escape for self priming.

What about the idea of placing an old wet/dry filter container in the sump to house like a refugium?
Sounds like a perfectly valid option to me. i would put the drain pipe from the tank and direct it right into that fuge area. The water will then flow through the fuge, then over into the rest of the sump, then into your return pump and back up into the main tank.

Also how would you know how much water to add and stuff?
I'm not sure what you mean here. if you are concerned about overflowing during a power outage then how you check for that is fill the sump about half way. Turn it on and let it run for a few minutes so that everything is doing what it should and the level in the tank and in the sump are now constant. Then mark the level in the sump somehow and turn off the power to the return pump. The water in the drain and return lines will settle into the sump and raise the sumps water level. Compare this level to the original mark and this is how much room you need to leave at the top of the sump to avoid an overflow during a power outage.

 

[BillyZ]

I forgot one very important caution!!!

Make sure your return line is very near the surface of your main tank OR that it has a small hole drilled in it near the waters surface. This is a very important syphon break. When the power goes out the return line will actually start to syphon water out of the tank and into the sump. If you have a small hole drilled near the tanks normal operating level then the return line will only syphon a small amount of water out before it starts to draw in air, thus breaking the syphon. (this is very important! Depending on the size of your tank this little oversight can easily syphon an additional 10 to 20 gallons of water into your sump!

 

[revhtree]

Hey Billy, I called to see if the lfs had a pump, and they said I would need at least 750g per hour. 10x the total tank volume. Does this sound right?

Also I need shutoffs right? For when I want to work on the sump.

 

[BillyZ]

if the retrun pump is the only thing moving water in your tank then yes, you'll want 750 GPH returning to the tank (but if this is the only water movement, you'll want a little more complicated return line that splits the return water into multiple outlets so the tank has good circulation.) IMO, the sump should suppliment existing watermovement from PHs or a seperate closed loop so you can have a good variety of random water current.

Don't forget to figure in the head-height when getting the pump. The farther up the pump has to lift the water the slower it will actually pump (significantly)

for shutoffs, IMO, not really. When you turn off the pump all the water movement stops nad your free to move the sump and plumbing as you need at that poit. If you hard plumb lines to fixtures then you might want, but it sounds like your going for a pretty straight forward sump and shouldn't need to worry about it.

 

[revhtree]

I have 3 PH's in the tank already and plan on leaving them in the tank. What would be the minimum size pump I would need. The head height is 4ft, and the sump is directly under the overflow.


Also I already have one of those adjustable arms that hangs in a slot over the overflow wall that returns the water. Will I need to do something extra to keep from the water going back into it.

 

[lawdawg18]

This is an excellent post. I bought a 150 reef ready tank last weekend. I'm hoping to try to get my sump done this weekend. Where can I find more information on building a sump out of a rubbermaid? The guy I bought the big tank from said I would need to purchase another tank to make the sump out of. My tank has two over flow boxes with 4 holes drilled Do I plumb the two into the tank tubes together into one, and the two into sump pipes into one or do I need 2 pumps in the sump. I quess that is pretty confusing. Do I need 2 pipes into the sump and 2 out, OR One in and One out? and if anybody has any good sump sites please send them my way. I have been reading them but I'm still pretty confused/ unsure.

THANKS
JASON

 

[revhtree]

Ok I have having problems finding a pump around here at reasonable prices. Way over priced!! I am probably going to order one online. Before I order I want you to tell me which Mag Drive I should get?

75g 4ft head height, in a 20g sump

Thanks!

 

[ellisz]

I use a Mag7 on my 75. It works fine. The Mega overflow(All glass brand) that came on my tank only supports 650 GPH so the Mag7 worked out good. You don't want a pump bigger than your overflow can handle.

Definately go online. I think the LFS sells the Mag7 for almost $150. Crazy.

 

[BillyZ]

You don't want a pump bigger than your overflow can handle.
eek! yet another VERY important detail I forgot to mention! Thanks for chiming in Ellisz! (thats why it's always good to get more than one opinion!)

If you have 3 other powerheads in the tank that you plan on keeping (a good decision) then you won't need 750 GPH coming out of your sump. Figure out what your overflow is rated for (the larger hole of the two) and then look at that mag-drive flow chart. (Sorry, gonna make you do the figuring and decisions on your own. It will help you understand how and why your sump works the way it does so you can troubleshoot and fix/adjust as need in the future) and get a pump that won't have a higher flow rate at the 4' head height you'll have than the overflow can handle.

IOW: (this is an example, and the numbers do NOT match your tank... cause I don't know what the numbers are )
-------------
Lets say your overflow can handle 400GPH.
Lets say you find a pump rated for 600GPH, but only pumps 350GPH @ a 4' head hieght, then thats the pump you want. But if you find a pump that's rated for 600GPH but pumps 500GPH @ a 4' head height, you DONT want that pump, because it will pump more water into your tank than your overflow can handle. (and thus your main tank will overflow onto the floor!)
-------------

Are things making a little more sense yet? And I will second the vote to purchase one online. I bought a Mag7 for I think $50+/- for my 55. (closed loop, flow only)

 

[BillyZ]

BTW, here's the chart I keep refering to. most Oline retailers will have this chart for the magdrive pumps if they sell them.

http://www.pond-o-mania.com/mag-drivestats.html

 

[revhtree]

Ok great info all!! The only problem I have is figuring out how much flow my overflo can handle. How can I do that?

The tank is about 5yrs old, I bought it from a friend, and I have no paperwork on it. How would I go about it? TIA!!