Flooding drama- had to share

[jeffaquarius]

In designing the sump systems, there are 2 CRITICAL things you must consider.
1. Power loss. until the tank stops draining, the sump MUST be able to take all the overflow and backflow water without overflowing.
2. If the overflow stops for any reason, and the sump continues to return water, your DT MUST be able to handle all the extra water, until the return pump pumps the return section dry and burns out.
You have a planning issue with the second consideration. Even after you fix the anemone issue, you should really lower your DT level to prevent overflows.

My suggestions:
1. The return nozzle in DT should just barely be touching the top water level to prevent back flow to sump during brown out.

2. Install a low level cut off sensor to your sump so that pump power is turned off when water level is below setting. You can get an ATO with such feature. The pump may cycle on and off during the crisis but this will prevent flooding.

 

[Holygral]

Not sure what a GFCI or GFI is but by the way it is used in your comments it sounds like a circuit breaker or power surge protector ? The power board had a surge protector but didn't work. I turned off the main power to the power board which was connected by an extension lead. Hoping there is not a next time but if there is, I will be going straight to the wall plug (which is well away and dry) to turn off the power.

Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCIs) - InterNACHI

You should already have them in your bathroom and kitchen, the slightest hint of water, and they should off the power quicker than the time it takes to drop a hair dryer into a sink, simple to install for about $10 each

 

[DI68]

My suggestions:
1. The return nozzle in DT should just barely be touching the top water level to prevent back flow to sump during brown out.

2. Install a low level cut off sensor to your sump so that pump power is turned off when water level is below setting. You can get an ATO with such feature. The pump may cycle on and off during the crisis but this will prevent flooding.

We played with the water level in the DT ( getting the hang of the acronymns- thanks ) with the first 2 accidents but didn't expect water to go back up. What is an ATO ? The cut off sounds great - not sure where to find one of these? I had researched ebay before as saw sensors but they don't turn off anything- your suggestion is heaps better.

 

[DI68]

Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCIs) - InterNACHI

You should already have them in your bathroom and kitchen, the slightest hint of water, and they should off the power quicker than the time it takes to drop a hair dryer into a sink, simple to install for about $10 each

Thanks but don't think we have these in Oz...only circuit breakers which worked after Chris got electrocuted. Normally they turn off power with anything which is faulty.

 

[Fresh2o]

We played with the water level in the DT ( getting the hang of the acronymns- thanks ) with the first 2 accidents but didn't expect water to go back up. What is an ATO ? The cut off sounds great - not sure where to find one of these? I had researched ebay before as saw sensors but they don't turn off anything- your suggestion is heaps better.

1. If the return is below the waterline in the DT, you can drill a small hole in it that will break the siphon during a power outage. Of course, water will squirt out of the hole. Adjust the location and angle of the hole so that the water shoots into the tank.
2. Look up float switch. These are available at Lowes, plumbing supply stores, and Amazon.

ATO = Automatic Turn-On ???

 

[jeffaquarius]

We played with the water level in the DT ( getting the hang of the acronymns- thanks ) with the first 2 accidents but didn't expect water to go back up. What is an ATO ? The cut off sounds great - not sure where to find one of these? I had researched ebay before as saw sensors but they don't turn off anything- your suggestion is heaps better.

Search for Auto Top Off with 3 sensors. Use it for Display Tank instead of Sump. The high level sensor will stop DT from over flowing. The low level sensor will be below your normal level or at bottom of tank. The 3rd sensor will be at the sump low level to stop pump and prevent from over heating.

 

[Ingy]

Any hardware store in Sydney that sells any electrical supplies will sell GFI/GFCI outlets or CBs. A GFCI CB (curcuit breaker) is by far more reliable but 5 times the price. A wall outlet with GFI will run around $20-30 and can be easily swapped. Worth the money. And yes, you'll have them down under, Oz isn't THAT backwards!

 

[jeffaquarius]

This one has a decent price with such feature.

JBJ Automatic Top Off (A.T.O.) System Water Level Controller

 

[DI68]

1. If the return is below the waterline in the DT, you can drill a small hole in it that will break the siphon during a power outage. Of course, water will squirt out of the hole. Adjust the location and angle of the hole so that the water shoots into the tank.
2. Look up float switch. These are available at Lowes, plumbing supply stores, and Amazon.

ATO = Automatic Turn-On ???

Wow thanks for the diagram and decoding of ATO- helps as I am a visual person. I will look into it.

 

[DI68]

My suggestions:
1. The return nozzle in DT should just barely be touching the top water level to prevent back flow to sump during brown out.

2. Install a low level cut off sensor to your sump so that pump power is turned off when water level is below setting. You can get an ATO with such feature. The pump may cycle on and off during the crisis but this will prevent flooding.

We learned the hard way with 1. I actually extended the pipe originally, in my head thinking it had to be well under water until I turned off the power and it drained into the sump, overflowing all over the carpets- disaster # 1

Going to look at # 2 plus incorporate Ingy's suggestion to raise the level in my power filter within the sump. I think if I holiday o'seas ( **** the falling Australian $$ ) I will connect a canister filter for peace of mind.

 

[DI68]

Any hardware store in Sydney that sells any electrical supplies will sell GFI/GFCI outlets or CBs. A GFCI CB (curcuit breaker) is by far more reliable but 5 times the price. A wall outlet with GFI will run around $20-30 and can be easily swapped. Worth the money. And yes, you'll have them down under, Oz isn't THAT backwards!

Thanks again Ingy. PS It's 'down (under)' not 'back(wards)' lol I don't care about the cost...I think we are paying far more for fish and corals than you guys from what I am seeing posted. Spending $$ on safety is a must.

 

[Fresh2o]

My bad. ATO = Automatic Top Off
Stay safe!

 

[jeffaquarius]

I have experienced similar problem before. When my feet gets wet due to flooding from tank water overflowing, I would get this shock when touching any stuff in my tank. This shock is caused by the stray voltage sipping out from the low quality of wire insulation (flat cords) of power heads. I decided to use the GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) for my own protection. However, it created a different problem. Once in a while the GFCI would trip on its own even if I am away from my tank. Theoretically, this should never happen since the tank is isolated from ground and there is no path for current to flow to ground to trip it. After resetting the GFCI everything would work again but only for a few days. It could be just a faulty GFCI but I removed it to prevent a different kind of disaster. I now use a Grounding Probe only whenever I work on my tank.

 

[MikeYQM]

My Radions trip the GFCI so I have them on a separate circuit. Seemed to only happen when they switched from day to night mode.

 

[kdpuffer]

Personally I would avoid using a GFCI, ground probe or any sort of interrupter. A ground probe used only to dicipate induced voltage only when working in the tank is ok in my mind but leaving it in the tank will provide a path to ground and this will complete the "circuit" which can be bad if equipment fails. As for GFCI devices I avoid them solely for the fact of if they trip then they turn whatever is run off them off. If a person where to run the majority of things off a GFCI but leave their return pump and a powerhead on non GFCI controlled powerhead at least you get flow if the GFCI trips. As I said personally I don't use them, if there is something in the tank to trip the GFCI I will know when I stick my hand in and get zapped then I find the problem and eliminate it.

 

[Ztkirkpatric]

Could you not install a baffle in your sump to limit the amount of water that will pump... Basically create a fairy small chamber that the pump resides in?

 

[DI68]

My Radions trip the GFCI so I have them on a separate circuit. Seemed to only happen when they switched from day to night mode.

My iron tripped the power this morning and we went running to the power box to switch it back on before any more disasters. Iron is in the bin

 

[DI68]

Could you not install a baffle in your sump to limit the amount of water that will pump... Basically create a fairy small chamber that the pump resides in?

I posted earlier pics of the sump set up. I think it's quite small as it is? Ingy suggested raising the pump which is a good idea longer term. I am thinking of adding a canister filter to get the biological filtration sorted as well as a HOB protein skimmer so I can turn the sump off when I go overseas in 5 weeks. I will have peace of mind then.

 

[jeffaquarius]

My iron tripped the power this morning and we went running to the power box to switch it back on before any more disasters. Iron is in the bin

During summer, airconditioners take most of the load. When you use microwave, electric range and other gadgets it contributes to overloading. This is a different case, since the GFCI only trips one particular electrical outlet. Poor innocent iron