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Old 12-21-2004, 04:34 AM   #1
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going sumpless

as i read through various forums i am noticing that more than a few people are running sumpless systems and just use filtration provided by LS and LR. so i just wanted to take a poll to see how many of you folks are running your systems without a sump.
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:19 AM   #2
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I am currently running a sump and am in the process of taking down the sump and just using a skimmer and powerheads along with my 120 lbs of LR in my 72G. I am constantly concerned about overflowing, so I'm going to take that possibility out of the equation.

tripper
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:42 AM   #3
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i do not run a sump, but have future plans for it.....



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Old 12-21-2004, 08:55 AM   #4
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I just want to add that a sump does not aid in filtration. Those running sumps dont do it for extra filtration but istead are running the sump for the following benifits.

1) easier water changing
2) constant water level in the main tank
3) water flow with less powerheads
4) extra water capacity adding to overall stability
5) a place to hide your heater, skimmer, etc
6) a place to add extra live rock to increase overall biofiltration
7) using a part of the sump as a refugium
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:01 PM   #5
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/agree Fishfreak, same reasons I use one.
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:20 PM   #6
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hey i have a question...How do a sump keep the main tank full all the time?
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Fish: occelaris clown , bicolor blenny , evil blue damsel
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:22 PM   #7
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as the water is pumped into the main tank, it spills into an overflow box. the overflow box then gravitiy feeds back into the sump. so the height where the water spills over into overflow box will be the constant height of the water in the main tank.
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SW - 75 gal
Amiracle SL-350 Wet/Dry (no bio-balls)
AquaC EV-180 Skimmer w/Mag 7
2ea Maxi-Jet 1200 & 2ea Maxi-Jet 900 PH
Captive Purity Refractometer w/Calibrator
LCD Digital 250 W Titanium Heater
48in Coralife 4x65 watt PC
Won Pro Heat II
Tunz level alarm
Approx. 200lbs Sand (3-4" DSB)
RO/DI unit - 110 GPD

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Old 12-21-2004, 01:27 PM   #8
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I use a sump....
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:47 PM   #9
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I don't... However considering that I'm only using a 60 gal tank.... I would like to sometime to add to the stability...
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:09 PM   #10
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i am going to add a sump for all 7 of the reasons listed by fishfreek

steve r
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:29 PM   #11
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I ran my 40 gallon Hex without a sump for 10 years, then added a sump about 1 year ago for reasons 1 through 6.
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:53 PM   #12
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all the reasons that fishfreak points out are the reasons that i have started my system with a sump. however, going sumpless peaks my interest. on another very high traffic forum, a lot of members have gone sumpless with good results. some of the points that they make are...

1. less electrical load
2. less heat if using a submersible pump
3. noiseless operation
4. no chance of overflowing system

not bad points. i think it comes down to personal preference. i also think that going sumpless on large systems probably works out better than smaller capacity systems.

at any rate, i just wanted to see what you all thought. i would like to have heard from those that are sumpless. on the other forum they said that many people don't say they are sumpless so that they don't get flak! however, on that forum, italso seems like the "sumpless" are beginning to come out of the closet!
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SW - 75 gal
Amiracle SL-350 Wet/Dry (no bio-balls)
AquaC EV-180 Skimmer w/Mag 7
2ea Maxi-Jet 1200 & 2ea Maxi-Jet 900 PH
Captive Purity Refractometer w/Calibrator
LCD Digital 250 W Titanium Heater
48in Coralife 4x65 watt PC
Won Pro Heat II
Tunz level alarm
Approx. 200lbs Sand (3-4" DSB)
RO/DI unit - 110 GPD

Please feel free to advise me!
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:05 PM   #13
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I think point 1 could be debated. If you use an efficent high output pump on the sump you can get by with less PH's in the tank. If you need more PH's in the main tank then your overall amperage might end up being as high with just Ph's for circulation as it would be with less Ph's and a large sump pump.

Point 3. Sumps can be made very quite. I have heard some that are no louder than a a decritive water fountin.


In the end it all comes down to what you want to do.
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:19 PM   #14
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I had a FO tank for 7+ years before I even knew what a sump was. I do worry about overflows since I have had them happen. I like the non cluttered look though of a sump system.
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:43 PM   #15
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I have a question... My set-up is a 55GAL 3-sided. The overflow box to my sump is unsightly and noisy. Is there any reason why I could not extend the siphon u-tube and theoverflow box to just below the main tank, yet still above the sump? This would work out great if I can, because I can hide the overflow with a chair on one side. The only thing I can think of is higher head pressure in the overflow and prefilter, otherwise, I think it would work.
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:59 PM   #16
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Would that not make the overflow noisy? Can't you build a canopy so you can't see it?
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Old 12-21-2004, 05:05 PM   #17
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@ jbro if I understand you right you want to move the secondary part of your overflow box below the water level of the Tank. Bad Idea unless you make sure that the capacity of that box is bigger than the amount of water feeding in your overflow box. So you don't syphon the the Tank volume on your floor if something clogs up.

I am runing a sump because I can see my tank from all four sides. That way I don't have to stick a lot of power heads in my tank and i that's the only way to have enough life rock without cluttering my tank.
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Old 12-21-2004, 05:06 PM   #18
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In the middle of setting one up now. I have way too much stuff hanging off the sides/insides of my tank. I may also utilize this upside down sand bed approach.
It would be nice to keep the nitrates way down and perform water changes simply for trace elements
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:04 PM   #19
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Thanks, Swiss. I never thought of that. Better to prepare for the worst. I'll leave it the way it is and maybe build a canope (thanks Elisz). Now, another question: I had somebody very reputable help me set this sump up. He says that I do not need any biofiltration in the sump, no LR, no bioballs. I have 60lbs LR in main tank (55 GAL) + 3-4" CC with 6lbs LS. Do you think he's right, or should I add LR to sump? BTW I switched from UGF to sump about a month ago, just closed it up. Water parameters have always been fine with the exception of nitrates (20-40ppm). I'm hoping this new set up and PS will take care of nitrates. If not, should I add something bio to the sump?
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:08 PM   #20
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fishfreak...

good point about the electrical load and you are right about keeping the sump quiet. mine is pretty quite except for the external sump pump.s

good discussion. i think there are good points for both sides.
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SW - 75 gal
Amiracle SL-350 Wet/Dry (no bio-balls)
AquaC EV-180 Skimmer w/Mag 7
2ea Maxi-Jet 1200 & 2ea Maxi-Jet 900 PH
Captive Purity Refractometer w/Calibrator
LCD Digital 250 W Titanium Heater
48in Coralife 4x65 watt PC
Won Pro Heat II
Tunz level alarm
Approx. 200lbs Sand (3-4" DSB)
RO/DI unit - 110 GPD

Please feel free to advise me!
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