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Old 07-13-2006, 04:18 AM   #1
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help me plan my sump for my 40 breeder

hey, i'm finally gonna convert my 40 breeder into my second reef tank..

anyways, i need some help figuring out the sump...I havent decided what size sump i will use..i can fit quite a bit in there, but i would have to take the stand away from the wall if i ever wanted to get it out because there is a center brace in the front..but the back is completely open..

anyways, i'm getting a hang on overflow (not drilled) for pretty much free....for now anyways..later i'm giving him all the free frags he wants. But anyways, he's got 2 overflows...one was custom made i think, and i cant remember what brand the other was...but one is ~600 gph, and the other is 900...I may also get a return pump from him that is rated for 982 gph..i think the name was somthin about genx or something...cant remember..but its never been used.

my questions are tho, is the 900 gph a good match for the 982 return? And is that overkill? If it is, would i be able to just use the return pump instead of additional powerheads, but have it split somwhere into like 3 or 4 returns? (i think its called spraybar???)

or would i be better off getting the 600, and would the return be too much for that?..there wont be too much head on the return pump...its just a standard 32" stand, and the 40 breeder is only 16 high i think?

lemme knw what you guys think.
mike
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Old 07-13-2006, 01:11 PM   #2
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Do you have a brand name and model number for that pump? Pumps vary greatly in thier ability to push against a head. I'm guessing the return will be under 900 by the time it pushes 30" of head, but it can't hurt to check. If your friend has the origional box, it may have the power curve diagram right on it.
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Old 07-13-2006, 01:51 PM   #3
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ya he's got the original box..he's never even opened it, cuz he thought he woudl need it for his cube, but ended up doin something way cooler w/it..hang on i'll check and see what the brand and everything was...ok, found it..its a genx pcx-30..and i measured and there is 47 inches of head from floor to the top of the tank. The link for marine deopot shows that its a 982 gph pump so ya...
i'll look on the marine depot link he gave me too to see if it gives the power curve on there...hang on again lol...ok, well it didnt say anything bout powercurve, but it does say that the max is 14 feet lol which is way more than i'll have i thnk

heres the link

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=PI1115

so which one should i go for? (overflow wise) I think he said that the smaller on just has a single...for lack of better words...export hole, where the bigger one has 2...
and what should i do for the flow? can i get by w/just the pump and split the return and make it like 3 seperate returns? (and are those called spray bars? its buggin me cuz i cant find out what those are lol)

thanks
mike
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Old 07-13-2006, 02:56 PM   #4
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Definately use the bigger one with that pump, you want the drain to have a higher rating than the return pump. You may even find you have to use both to make it work with that pump, but I'm hoping the head is enough to throttle down the pump a little. (I can't find the power curve for that pump online. I'll look when I get home to see if it's in my AquaticECO cateloge.)

Even throttled down, you're going to end up with 20x turnover. This would be great for stony corals, but not very good for a low maintenance tank. What are you planning to put in there? You might want to look for another pump with less thrust, and use the 600 gph overflow.

Are you planning on putting a fuge in the sump? You could take advantage of the excess horsepower and run the fuge off of a T on the return line.

As for the divided return, do you mean a spray bar or a manifold? A spray bar is an extended tube with holes along the way, so that water can fall out of several outlets. A manifold has hard plumbed Ts and valves, so you can adjust the way the flow returns through the several outlets.
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Old 07-13-2006, 03:34 PM   #5
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ok thanks..now i know the spray bar isnt what i was thinking of...Is the manifold those things that are like, black and you can bend them? they look like they have a bunch of parts in it to make it bend..idk, ill look for a pic. But spray bar is def. not what i was picturing..more like 3 or 4 seperate returns from the same pump is what i'm kinda thinkin...would that pump w/a few seperate returns, and maybe the fuge on a T, be slowed down much? or will any of those even slow it down at all? I'm lookin for around 15x turnover..i mostly just want some corals like hammers/xenias/etc...all the wavy stuff...and maybe some lower light requireing hard corals...

I dont think i wanna do both th overflows...just one, whichever one is better for a 40...

And i guess a better way to ask about the pump is...is it ok to just use that pump for all my circulation, or would i need more powerheads? i dont wanna get any powerheads if possible..i'd rather just have the return split into 3 or 4 parts....

i'm kinda at a loss of words here.. lol i'm tryin to picture the stuff, and i just havent seen much of it...if anyones got pictures of their setup, like before theres a bunch of stuff in it (like skimmers, lr, sand, chaeto..etc..i'm good on those, but when i'm tryin to picture how to do just the plumming on the sump, they make it confusing for me..)

But to clarify, i want the return pump to be pushing out LESS than the overflows are takin out of the tank? And how much less? (gph wise)

thanks agian, and anyone who has pictures, they're much appreciated.
mike
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:04 PM   #6
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Ah! I think you mean Loc Line fittings.

If you're aiming for 15x turnover, you could use the 600 GPH return and a smaller pump.

The speed of the overflow vs the speed of the pump is somewhat of a balancing act. If the overflow is too small, you will quickly get your sump pumped dry, and your aquarium overflowing. Too big, and the flow will be too slow to keep bubbles from building up, breaking the siphon, and causing the same problem. If your overflow box is way to big, or you just want insurance, you could use an Aqua Lifter to prevent bubble buildup. The best situation is to have an overflow box with a rating slightly larger than what the pump pushes under the head load in your system.

The only downside to running all your circulation through the sump is increased noise and bubbles. It will be a perfectly functional way to run things if you don't mind the noise, and have baffles in the sump to get rid of the bubbles.

Plumming article with drawings: http://dslinux.dyndns.org/~denise/aq...tureindex.html
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:18 PM   #7
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yes!!! lol those are what i'm talkin bout! god i feal like a retard..spray bar lol..oh well you win some lose some...

anyways. you think i should just get some extra powerheads? the only reason i wanted the loc line thing is to create random flow instead of having just one really strong return.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_dudeguy
anyways. you think i should just get some extra powerheads?
Only if you're switching to a significantly weaker pump.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:08 PM   #9
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k...i'm gonna try and search for a cheaper pump...my dad says the one i was gonna get from that guy is too much (80) and i really dont need the 982 gph do i..
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:32 PM   #10
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Yeah, it's really overkill for your situation. Might consider two smaller pumps, one that runs around 200 GPH for your sump, and one around 400 for a closed loop. That will be quiet and meet your 15x turnover goal.
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Old 07-14-2006, 02:39 AM   #11
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closed loop? lol srry how does that work?
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:06 AM   #12
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A closed loop has both the inlet and outlet ends submerged in the tank, so once it's primed, you never get any air in the system. This is a very quiet, non-obtrusive way to get more ciculation in your aquarium. Most people get custom drilled tanks for thier closed loops, but you can also do a hang-on-back style one. (Directions at OzReef.org)
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Old 07-15-2006, 12:02 PM   #13
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but figured it'd be better to ask then start a new thread.

So let's say I have a 55gal and the head total is 54''.... I don't quite understand how you amount to the head total and get the pump size needed and the hob overflow size....

please help me get a clearer picture and understanding of this.
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Old 07-15-2006, 07:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum1serin
I don't quite understand how you amount to the head total and get the pump size needed and the hob overflow size....
That's a loaded question!

1. What do you want to keep in this tank?
2. Do you want all your water flowing through your sump, or will you have some supplimental ciculation like a closed loop or powerheads? (Closed loop or powerheads is quieter, but more complex.)
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Old 07-15-2006, 08:05 PM   #15
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I want to keep more of the soft corals and anenome's.

I figured it was required to have powerheads... but if not, then I'd have it just flow through the sump.

I'm also still debating on a pre drilled aquarium from all-glass or just the HOB overflow...
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Old 07-15-2006, 09:38 PM   #16
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I think definately spend the extra on the pre drilled.
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Old 07-16-2006, 10:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum1serin
I'm also still debating on a pre drilled aquarium from all-glass or just the HOB overflow...
If it's in the budget, go for the pre-drilled. You'll greatly reduce your chances of water on the floor, and it simplifies your maintenance. If there's more budget left over, consider a custom drilled aquarium, with holes for a closed loop system.
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Old 07-17-2006, 02:50 AM   #18
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Okay, so I'm going to go with a 75 gallon RR tank with the built in overflow.

The overflow is rated at 600gph-

My sump will be a 20 gal long since that seems to be deemed appropriate size to take into account in case power goes out and tank drains till the stopping point of the overflow.. right? I mean am I correct on a 20 gal long being suitable?

Now, all I need to figure out is what size pump I need to push it back up.. That's what confuses me. The head would only be.... hrm.. about 36" high stand, but then it has to go up to the top of the tank, so then... . 56" right?

Please help. Thank you for what you've already helped with as well.
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:22 AM   #19
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I would get something larger then a 20, JMO I would get a 30 long..
A Mag 9.5 would be a good pump, if its too much flow then you can T off and have some water just dump back into the sump
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:58 PM   #20
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would the Mag 9.5 also be okay for a 30 long ? I'm not too sure on the whole plumbing thing, so I wouldn't be to knowledgable with the T off.


Plus, I see all these sumps with the plumbing where it has what can only be a shut off valve to close the pipe?
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