HoB filter or HOB Refugium

[JoTwice]

I have a 45 gallon fish only, for now. I have a penguin Bio-wheel 350 filter on it now and 35 lbs of live rock and 40 lbs of live sand, no skimmer yet. Was thinking of putting a HOB refugium instead of the filter. Which would work better? Or should I keep both?

[Massimo]

I suggest you get the skimmer first. It contributes a lot. In the cleaning of the water. A refugium helps too but you should get a skimmer first. As for as refugiums go, a HOB refugium is better. I'll be getting a CPR Aquafuge (medium size) on my 45 gallon soon.

[JoTwice]

Get rid of the HOB filter? Just a skimmer

[Massimo]

Originally Posted by JoTwice

Get rid of the HOB filter? Just a skimmer

you can use the hob filter but only run carbon in it but in my opinion your life will be made easier with a skimmer

[Ingy]

The mentioned CPR AquaFuge also has a PS version with built in Protien Skimmer. I have one and loved it before my upgrade.

[Mebbid]

For a refugium you have to be realistic about your expectations. A HOB refugium is tiny, doesn't hold squat for water, and has no room to grow macros. It's really an exercise in futility if you are looking for something to help your water parameters.

[Ingy]

Originally Posted by Mebbid

For a refugium you have to be realistic about your expectations. A HOB refugium is tiny, doesn't hold squat for water, and has no room to grow macros. It's really an exercise in futility if you are looking for something to help your water parameters.

WRONG ! ! ! I'm just saying.

For a 45 gal tank, of course bigger is better. A sump would be preferred, but if you can only go HOB, a refugium does work. I say this because I had one. Is a 5 gal refugium a giant, no, but it is better than nothing and the chaeto grew very well for me. a simple clip on CFL lamp over the fuge worked wonders for my nitrites. I was getting up around 80ppm nitrates with a HOB filter with nitrate resin pads, all to no avail. I removed the filter when my CPR Aquafuge PS (large) arrived, and it quickly took care of all my nitrate issues.

It holds more than squat for water (5 gals)
It WILL grow macro (very well too)
It was an efffective method to remove nutrients in a sumpless setup.

[Mebbid]

Originally Posted by Ingy

WRONG ! ! ! I'm just saying.

For a 45 gal tank, of course bigger is better. A sump would be preferred, but if you can only go HOB, a refugium does work. I say this because I had one. Is a 5 gal refugium a giant, no, but it is better than nothing and the chaeto grew very well for me. a simple clip on CFL lamp over the fuge worked wonders for my nitrites. I was getting up around 80ppm nitrates with a HOB filter with nitrate resin pads, all to no avail. I removed the filter when my CPR Aquafuge PS (large) arrived, and it quickly took care of all my nitrate issues.

It holds more than squat for water (5 gals)
It WILL grow macro (very well too)
It was an efffective method to remove nutrients in a sumpless setup.

So you added a protein skimmer and got a reduction in nitrates? Yes that is DEFINITELY because of the macro algae with the clip on light in the refuge.

I am going to leave this here, take a look at the video it is enlightening about refugiums.

Refugiums in a Saltwater Tank: Viable Nutrient Control or Just a Safe Harbor?

[Ingy]

The macro algae grew increadibly fast. It filled a large part of the refugium section in no time at all. I was cutting it and throwing it away which meant it was exporting the nutrients the skimmer missed.

[Daniel Fishy]

Originally Posted by Ingy

The macro algae grew increadibly fast. It filled a large part of the refugium section in no time at all. I was cutting it and throwing it away which meant it was exporting the nutrients the skimmer missed.

I agree I ran two penguin 400 and a 150 skimmer. When I added the fuge nitrates went to zero. Hob filters are fine if you clean it regular. There are articles about fuges. I read lots of them good and bad,good out ways them. All my lfs run fuge, I would stay away from a sand bed in them. Easier to clean and stays clean.hob would be beneficial for your tank.

[Mebbid]

Originally Posted by Ingy

The macro algae grew increadibly fast. It filled a large part of the refugium section in no time at all. I was cutting it and throwing it away which meant it was exporting the nutrients the skimmer missed.

Yet the skimmer was the major workhorse of your setup. I'm not saying adding macro algae won't help but you have to be realistic about it. Adding a handfull of chaeto to a 50g tank isn't going to do much. Couple that with a skimmer which is going to pull the majority of junk out of the water and then sure, it is a good combination but a tiny refuge on a big tank alone isn't going to achieve miraculous results.

The fun thing is that it's simple to prove me wrong. Take your algae and put it in a bucket of water for a week with that clip on light over it. Test your nitrates to see how much they rise and voila, you know how much work the macro algae is doing.

[Ingy]

It wasn't about how much macro i was putting in, it was about how much I was pulling out. And I pulled a lot out. All that chaeto grew from nutrients that passed the skimmer and made it to the chamber. It was a poop load of solid nutrients in the form of algae. I can argue with that.

[Mebbid]

Originally Posted by Ingy

It wasn't about how much macro i was putting in, it was about how much I was pulling out. And I pulled a lot out. All that chaeto grew from nutrients that passed the skimmer and made it to the chamber. It was a poop load of solid nutrients in the form of algae. I can argue with that.

how much is "alot"? Also, what kind of macro is it? For example, I'm pulling enough of either chaeto or grape caulerpa out of my tank every month to halfway fill up a 5g bucket. That's either approx 1lb of chaeto or 2lbs of caulerpa.

[Daniel Fishy]

One of the reasons for fast growth is the amount of nutrients in the water. Less nutrient and nitrates will slow the macro algae growth.

[Mebbid]

Originally Posted by Daniel Fishy

One of the reasons for fast growth is the amount of nutrients in the water. Less nutrient and nitrates will slow the macro algae growth.

Yeah, but different types of macro algae have different limiting factors. Grape caulerpa for example is an amazing macro algae that requires a lot of phosphates. In a tank with fairly high phosphate it will rapidly consume nitrates out competing chaeto. However if you drastically reduce the phosphates in the tank then the chaeto takes over and out competes the caulerpa. Macros need to be selected based on the goal of the tank.

[Big Tex]

Originally Posted by Daniel Fishy

I agree I ran two penguin 400 and a 150 skimmer. When I added the fuge nitrates went to zero. Hob filters are fine if you clean it regular. There are articles about fuges. I read lots of them good and bad,good out ways them. All my lfs run fuge, I would stay away from a sand bed in them. Easier to clean and stays clean.hob would be beneficial for your tank.

ANYWAYS..

To the OP..

i have a 46g bow front i just shifted to with all my old tank stuff and all i have is a topfin-75 filter that i deep clean once a months and swap polyfill weekly and carbon cartridges bi-weekly, it keeps my water crystal clear and parameters very stable. nitrates never get about 10ppm in my tank with bi-weekly water changes opposite of the cartridge changes, i see no need for a skimmer i have 60lbs of live reef grade sand, and about 45lbs of live rock soon to be about 60lbs in a 2wks time adding in rock slowly to keep everything stable with minimal die off, i really dont need a skimmer as of now, but ill be adding one later when i get more fish, i have a flame angel, 2 caramel clowns, six-line wrasse, soon to be orchid dotty back, 2 purple firefish and a tiny-small yellow tang (1.25") so ill be using a hydor slim skim rated for 65g after all that, but for now, skimmer-less is fine

[Daniel Fishy]

Originally Posted by Big Tex

ANYWAYS..

To the OP..

i have a 46g bow front i just shifted to with all my old tank stuff and all i have is a topfin-75 filter that i deep clean once a months and swap polyfill weekly and carbon cartridges bi-weekly, it keeps my water crystal clear and parameters very stable. nitrates never get about 10ppm in my tank with bi-weekly water changes opposite of the cartridge changes, i see no need for a skimmer i have 60lbs of live reef grade sand, and about 45lbs of live rock soon to be about 60lbs in a 2wks time adding in rock slowly to keep everything stable with minimal die off, i really dont need a skimmer as of now, but ill be adding one later when i get more fish, i have a flame angel, 2 caramel clowns, six-line wrasse, soon to be orchid dotty back, 2 purple firefish and a tiny-small yellow tang (1.25") so ill be using a hydor slim skim rated for 65g after all that, but for now, skimmer-less is fine

Anyway : to the op get the hob fuge it will work and help your tank.

[JoTwice]

Thanks for your response