reefrunner69
Aquarium Advice Addict
Prolly about 10lbs should do.
How do you replace a UGF+CC with a DSB (Sorry to keep buging
- Thread starter skip_16157
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skip_16157
Aquarium Advice Activist
I am going to HD right after work and taking all this advice and changing my susbstrate tonight. I thank everbody for the information and prompt help. This is a great website! I will update you with my results!
Thanks again
Thanks again
skip_16157
Aquarium Advice Activist
I've removed all my CC and UGF added the sand. I ran my filters for 45 mins and yet my water is cloudy you can't see in. It looks like sand water. I also have been removing clumps of foam too. I have shut my filters off and waiting to see if it will settle.
Any suggestions.
Any suggestions.
G
Guest
Guest
Southdown sand
Hey Kevin,
I just emailed Home depot and they sent me an email with the SKU of the product...They said go to my local home depot and have the garden section get it for me...Very helpful
Thank you for contacting homedepot.com!
We researched your YardRight/SouthDown Tropical Play Sand and discovered that presently your local Home Depot store in Jacksonville, FL doesn't carry your Tropical Play Sand in stock. We did however, find a current Sku#:578-819 which is being used in the New Jersey area.
We suggest you contact your local Home Depot store and speak with an associate in the Garden Department and see if they would transfer in from the Watchung, NJ Home Depot Store YardRight/SouthDown Tropical Play Sand.( If they transfer there is no shipping fee).
For your convenience, we are providing you with the necessary information to contact both Home Depot stores:
Use your local Home Depot Store
and see if they will transfer from:
Watchung Home Depot Store #906
1515 Route 22
Watchung, NJ 07069
(908)222-7700
If we can be of any further assistance, please feel free to contact us again.
Regards,
homedepot.com
Hey Kevin,
I just emailed Home depot and they sent me an email with the SKU of the product...They said go to my local home depot and have the garden section get it for me...Very helpful
Thank you for contacting homedepot.com!
We researched your YardRight/SouthDown Tropical Play Sand and discovered that presently your local Home Depot store in Jacksonville, FL doesn't carry your Tropical Play Sand in stock. We did however, find a current Sku#:578-819 which is being used in the New Jersey area.
We suggest you contact your local Home Depot store and speak with an associate in the Garden Department and see if they would transfer in from the Watchung, NJ Home Depot Store YardRight/SouthDown Tropical Play Sand.( If they transfer there is no shipping fee).
For your convenience, we are providing you with the necessary information to contact both Home Depot stores:
Use your local Home Depot Store
and see if they will transfer from:
Watchung Home Depot Store #906
1515 Route 22
Watchung, NJ 07069
(908)222-7700
If we can be of any further assistance, please feel free to contact us again.
Regards,
homedepot.com
G
Guest
Guest
Settle
Skip,
This is somewhat normal, it does help to wash it in a five gallon bucket first however, I only did this to the new tank, the tank in the pictures I posted, I just took out the shell bottom and added the sand...I didn't have the option to use southdown tropical sand so I used just play sand... It took about 6 to 7 hours for it to clear up...It will, I would turn on a filter though, the sand settles and the dust is what is clouding the water. It will settle, however, much slower than if you run some type of filter...If you are using an aqua clear, just use the sponge and let it run...it will clear up in a few hours...Patience is the key...you just made a major change...
Where are your fish???
Skip,
This is somewhat normal, it does help to wash it in a five gallon bucket first however, I only did this to the new tank, the tank in the pictures I posted, I just took out the shell bottom and added the sand...I didn't have the option to use southdown tropical sand so I used just play sand... It took about 6 to 7 hours for it to clear up...It will, I would turn on a filter though, the sand settles and the dust is what is clouding the water. It will settle, however, much slower than if you run some type of filter...If you are using an aqua clear, just use the sponge and let it run...it will clear up in a few hours...Patience is the key...you just made a major change...
Where are your fish???
skip_16157
Aquarium Advice Activist
My fish are in a cooler. I have 2 power filters running. I'm not impatient at this point just concerned.
It has been 12 hours and yet no results. My fish seem to be fine right now.
I got my southdown in the garden dept. for $5 a bag. Although since it is could here the stuff was fozen. I found it odd but the clerk told me that lots of people have been buying it up around here. I talked to all the LFS and yet not one mentioned this sand. They must all found out online. Just interesting.
It has been 12 hours and yet no results. My fish seem to be fine right now.
I got my southdown in the garden dept. for $5 a bag. Although since it is could here the stuff was fozen. I found it odd but the clerk told me that lots of people have been buying it up around here. I talked to all the LFS and yet not one mentioned this sand. They must all found out online. Just interesting.
loganj
Aquarium Advice Addict
sand
The LFS would rather sell you their sand @ $20 a bag. For them to recommend HD sand would be kinda like the Nissan dealer telling you to buy a Toyota
. Sounds like you're on the right track here though...the sand will settle soon and you'll have a much better setup with it.
Logan J
The LFS would rather sell you their sand @ $20 a bag. For them to recommend HD sand would be kinda like the Nissan dealer telling you to buy a Toyota
. Sounds like you're on the right track here though...the sand will settle soon and you'll have a much better setup with it.Logan J
I used Southdown sand and it took several days for the cloud to settle. I was not mechanically filtering just recircing with my sump. It will clear but everything in your tank will be coated with sand dust when it does. The sand will continue to create a dust cloud as you move things around until the critters build up and the top layer of sand becomes more stable.
G
Guest
Guest
Sand
Hey guys, I am sure someone has done this before but I thought I would share my new found method of cleaning that powder out of the sand....
I filled a 5 gal bucket with about 30lbs of sand. (did this outside in the yard actually) and took the hose with the spray nozzle on full and sprayed toward the bottom of the bucket, I saw all of this dust start flowing over the sides and the sand going back down...I did this until the water was somewhat clear and then added it to my tank...I could see my rocks and evrything when I filled the tank up with water...I probably saved 12 hours of filtering....
I hope this helps someone...
Hey guys, I am sure someone has done this before but I thought I would share my new found method of cleaning that powder out of the sand....
I filled a 5 gal bucket with about 30lbs of sand. (did this outside in the yard actually) and took the hose with the spray nozzle on full and sprayed toward the bottom of the bucket, I saw all of this dust start flowing over the sides and the sand going back down...I did this until the water was somewhat clear and then added it to my tank...I could see my rocks and evrything when I filled the tank up with water...I probably saved 12 hours of filtering....
I hope this helps someone...
vermonter310
Aquarium Advice Activist
I've also heard people speak against washing the sand. So should I wash or not?
Seems to me I should.
VT
Seems to me I should.
VT
I read that the optimum particle size for a DSB is 1/8 mm. If by washing it you are removing the size particles you need then it does not sound like the thing to do. I think I also read in that same article that it was an average particle size and that a variation od sizes is best.... some of the pros around hear might know better.
G
Guest
Guest
Sand.
There is a difference between dust and sand...Silt is not very good IMO
That dust that I am talking about, believe it or not is not very healthy for PH and filters...IMO
You don't want to wash live sand....I see no problem with washing bagged sand from HD or HWS. They sell it around fertilizers and such..I wash it just to be safe...
What works for some may not worK for others...IMO
There is a difference between dust and sand...Silt is not very good IMO
That dust that I am talking about, believe it or not is not very healthy for PH and filters...IMO
You don't want to wash live sand....I see no problem with washing bagged sand from HD or HWS. They sell it around fertilizers and such..I wash it just to be safe...
What works for some may not worK for others...IMO
When I added my southdown sand to my 80 I did not wash it.
I added the sand to an empty tank. Then I added water to the tank.
The sand did still give the water a nice whiteout effect as the lighter dust particles where mixed up. Over the period of a few days the dust settled out and I added my live rock.
For the period of a month or so as I was using the algae mag on the tank close to the sand a small local dust clowd would appear.
Now I dont have these issues as many of the dust particles have either disolved or clumped together thanks to the bactera.
I added the sand to an empty tank. Then I added water to the tank.
The sand did still give the water a nice whiteout effect as the lighter dust particles where mixed up. Over the period of a few days the dust settled out and I added my live rock.
For the period of a month or so as I was using the algae mag on the tank close to the sand a small local dust clowd would appear.
Now I dont have these issues as many of the dust particles have either disolved or clumped together thanks to the bactera.
reefrunner69
Aquarium Advice Addict
According to Dr Ron (http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm) A diversity of grain size from sugar grain sized down to silt, will promote and sustain a larger diversity of fauna for a DSB. Basically some critters don't care much what the grain size is and some will only live in certain grain sizes, like silt. I'm not saying your wrong, just that there are different opinions on this and that silt isn't necessarily bad. The most common advice, at this point in time, is not to wash the sand.
G
Guest
Guest
Sand
OK, I read that stuff too, and I do agree that there are creatures that like the silty stuff, I just choose not to have it if I can help it...I quess I didn't really clarify...I like seeing the graininess of the sand on the bottom..It is funny though when reading stuff on this topic...There seems to be more that say don't wash the sand than do and it does get confusing without clarification, especially for the person who has never owned a marine aquarium before...
I also, know that there is a lot of info on how deep to have your sand bed also, but, isn't it true that if you have it too deep, and don't have the adequate amout of sand stirring creatures, it could release toxic amounts of gasses in the water thus killing all of the fish and inverts?
The silt that lies on the bottom of the aquarium promotes this anaerobic bacteria because of the lack of oxygen in the SB causing the high levels of toxicity. I read Ronald L. Shimek, Phd's page also, and what I don't uderstand is he goes against 85% of the population on DSB? He obviously doesn't keep fish...Seems only reef systems.. Everything I read about keeping fish states to watch out for the gases and such, and to keep animals such as sifting stars and gobies, so what gives? So we should make a sand bed and the tiny orgs will do everything? I don't know, sounds like the LFS should stop selling sand digging creatures altogether...
OK, I read that stuff too, and I do agree that there are creatures that like the silty stuff, I just choose not to have it if I can help it...I quess I didn't really clarify...I like seeing the graininess of the sand on the bottom..It is funny though when reading stuff on this topic...There seems to be more that say don't wash the sand than do and it does get confusing without clarification, especially for the person who has never owned a marine aquarium before...
I also, know that there is a lot of info on how deep to have your sand bed also, but, isn't it true that if you have it too deep, and don't have the adequate amout of sand stirring creatures, it could release toxic amounts of gasses in the water thus killing all of the fish and inverts?
The silt that lies on the bottom of the aquarium promotes this anaerobic bacteria because of the lack of oxygen in the SB causing the high levels of toxicity. I read Ronald L. Shimek, Phd's page also, and what I don't uderstand is he goes against 85% of the population on DSB? He obviously doesn't keep fish...Seems only reef systems.. Everything I read about keeping fish states to watch out for the gases and such, and to keep animals such as sifting stars and gobies, so what gives? So we should make a sand bed and the tiny orgs will do everything? I don't know, sounds like the LFS should stop selling sand digging creatures altogether...
michealprater
Aquarium Advice Addict
Geez. This thread is going to turn into the never ending argument, just like the lighting comparison sticky.
Sorry to be blunt people, but it boils down to just one simple thing. ITS JUST A MATTER OF OPINION.
Sorry to be blunt people, but it boils down to just one simple thing. ITS JUST A MATTER OF OPINION.
G
Guest
Guest
IMO
You are so right, I believe that earlier I stated that what works for me might not work for everyone....Sorry, I don't really mean to argue, it is a by product of reading too many books with contradicting material..
I believe I was told some time ago,
"Don't believe everything you read and certainly not everything you hear"
Experience is the key...
My Appologies
You are so right, I believe that earlier I stated that what works for me might not work for everyone....Sorry, I don't really mean to argue, it is a by product of reading too many books with contradicting material..
I believe I was told some time ago,
"Don't believe everything you read and certainly not everything you hear"
Experience is the key...
My Appologies
reefrunner69
Aquarium Advice Addict
michealprater said:Geez. This thread is going to turn into the never ending argument, just like the lighting comparison sticky.
Sorry to be blunt people, but it boils down to just one simple thing. ITS JUST A MATTER OF OPINION.
If you don't like debate...don't read it. I do not consider anything said yet, to be argument, simply debate. Timbo2 posted some very good questions, which I will answer in the next post (or at least try too). Debate is for open minded people that want to learn, there are no losers in a debate, argument are for those with closed minds where the only objective is to be right. This hasn't degraded to an argument and until it does, it is welcome to continue.
michealprater
Aquarium Advice Addict
Thats why i chimed in with my two cents. In a true debate, everyone should be entitledto there opinion, thats why I posted mine. I wasnt mad, if I came off that way I appologize. Don't want to p!$* off the people that help me the most.
reefrunner69
Aquarium Advice Addict
Re: Sand
If the only reason to lose the silt is the look...keep it, it will settle to the bottom. Larger particles will come to the top.
First the toxic gas is hydrogen sulfide, and if you can stand to be in the same room as the tank, it has not reached toxic levels in the aquarium. ALL DSBs will develop areas with hydrogen sulfide, it does form in anoxic zones, which are necessary for the proper functioning of the DSB, the sand in the upper layers is the only sand that is stirred enough for oxygenation. As far as the depth, for a DSB to function most efficiently it should be 4-6 inches, that does not mean a sandbed of 3" won't work also, it just won't function as efficiently. The largest byproduct of no fauna will be sandbed clumping. The bacteria that are on the grains of sand produce an enzyme that works to glue the sand together, the sand bed fauna prevent clumping and therefore they make the DSB work. Sand bed faunas other job is to eat detritus and maintain the sandbed. They are excellent detrivores, the reason they are necessary is because they don't turn the sand too much. Common sense tells us we could stir the sand to keep it from clumping, but that would introduce too much oygen into the sand bed and prevent denitrifying bacteria from colonizing the lower levels of the sand bed.
Dr Ron is the preminent authority on sandbeds. He is the pioneering force behind the DSB, and to my knowledge, the rest of the aquarium community follows his lead on DSBs. That is not to say that there aren't those that do not agree with the DSB, but simple fact is, they work.
These are not mutually exclusive, a reef with out fish is like pie without the filling.
If your desire is not to keep a DSB, then sifting stars and gobies are one option to keep your sand clean of detritus and oxygenated to prevent hydrogen sulfide. If you are keeping a DSB, they will spell certain doom for your sandbed.
That's the ticket with a DSB, but remember, not everyone uses a DSB.
I couldn't agree more! Most starve slowly after wiping out all the sand fauna. I have seen some luck with placing food into the sand bed.
I hope this clears up any questions, as noted earlier, it is just opinion, but it is opinion based on alot of antecdotal evidence, as well as some scientific. Do not mistake this as any type of proclamation that this is the only way to do it...there are many different roads to get to the same place. DSBs are what is popular right now, when I started, bare bottomed tanks were what was recommended, were they wrong? No, not for the information available at the time. Now there is different info available, in a few years, there will be another popular "best" method. This is an ever changing hobby, we must change with it, to provide the best homes for our fishy friends.
timbo2 said:
If the only reason to lose the silt is the look...keep it, it will settle to the bottom. Larger particles will come to the top.
First the toxic gas is hydrogen sulfide, and if you can stand to be in the same room as the tank, it has not reached toxic levels in the aquarium. ALL DSBs will develop areas with hydrogen sulfide, it does form in anoxic zones, which are necessary for the proper functioning of the DSB, the sand in the upper layers is the only sand that is stirred enough for oxygenation. As far as the depth, for a DSB to function most efficiently it should be 4-6 inches, that does not mean a sandbed of 3" won't work also, it just won't function as efficiently. The largest byproduct of no fauna will be sandbed clumping. The bacteria that are on the grains of sand produce an enzyme that works to glue the sand together, the sand bed fauna prevent clumping and therefore they make the DSB work. Sand bed faunas other job is to eat detritus and maintain the sandbed. They are excellent detrivores, the reason they are necessary is because they don't turn the sand too much. Common sense tells us we could stir the sand to keep it from clumping, but that would introduce too much oygen into the sand bed and prevent denitrifying bacteria from colonizing the lower levels of the sand bed.
Dr Ron is the preminent authority on sandbeds. He is the pioneering force behind the DSB, and to my knowledge, the rest of the aquarium community follows his lead on DSBs. That is not to say that there aren't those that do not agree with the DSB, but simple fact is, they work.
These are not mutually exclusive, a reef with out fish is like pie without the filling.
If your desire is not to keep a DSB, then sifting stars and gobies are one option to keep your sand clean of detritus and oxygenated to prevent hydrogen sulfide. If you are keeping a DSB, they will spell certain doom for your sandbed.
That's the ticket with a DSB, but remember, not everyone uses a DSB.
I couldn't agree more! Most starve slowly after wiping out all the sand fauna. I have seen some luck with placing food into the sand bed.
I hope this clears up any questions, as noted earlier, it is just opinion, but it is opinion based on alot of antecdotal evidence, as well as some scientific. Do not mistake this as any type of proclamation that this is the only way to do it...there are many different roads to get to the same place. DSBs are what is popular right now, when I started, bare bottomed tanks were what was recommended, were they wrong? No, not for the information available at the time. Now there is different info available, in a few years, there will be another popular "best" method. This is an ever changing hobby, we must change with it, to provide the best homes for our fishy friends.
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