Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater Reef Aquaria
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 05-18-2005, 11:16 PM   #1
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 754
I'm at the end...Cyano

Cyano is beating me. It is slowing killing my tank. According to my ability to measure water quality, I've improved my measures to the finest they've ever been.

I feed only a little bit of food every 2 days. Besides, there's no phosphate or nitrate detectable that might point to overfeeding. All water is RO/DI. I do weekly clean up including water change. I grow a little macro algae and harvest a little bit each week.

I changed my MH. More light = more cyano.

After months of fighting (I'm pretty patient), I tried Boyd's chemi-clean, but it has had no impact and I'm afraid to try again for fear of totally crashing the system. (Anyone with personal experience with this product?)

I have read everything there is to read about cyano control/prevention and have been doing everything suggested...for months...and it has just slowly spread to the point that it is beginning to choke out a few soft corals.

I don't even know why I'm writing this because I'm certain no one is going to tell me anything that I haven't read a thousand times already...I'm putting 5 or 6 hours a week into battling cyano and I can't take it anymore.
__________________

__________________
40 Gal Hex, 10 Gal Sump, CPR overflow with Mag 7 return, Maxxima 35 RO/DI, 10K MH pendant, 2 x 15W actinic, 1 yellow tail damsel, 1 high fin goby, 40lbs LR.com rock, 1 red head goby, 1 algae blenny, Leather, blastomussa, sun, and hammer corals, green polyps, carpet anemone, 2 sexy shrimp...and more LR critters than you could imagine in your worst nightmares.... Mantis in 5 gal
Brad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 11:24 PM   #2
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
boardsurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 827
My friend had a setup similar to yours and had bad cyano. He switched to an Aqua C Remora Pro skimmer and it really did help out...That coupled with increased water flow to the areas (he had a problem on the sand only) really ended it.

Sorry you're having so much trouble with it, but I know what you mean. We all pretty much have problems w/it at some point.
__________________

__________________
- Mike
125 gal. reef w sump/refugium & 8-bulb 640w T5's
45 gal fresh w/plants + CPF lighting
boardsurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 12:12 AM   #3
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 754
After writing the above, I went and vacuumed the *&^! out of my DSB. I'm sure there are a lot of very upset sand critters, but desperate times....

While I have been skimming the cyano off the sand, and taking a bit of sand with it...I have NOT been deeply vacuuming the sand bed (until now).

I guess we'll see.
__________________
40 Gal Hex, 10 Gal Sump, CPR overflow with Mag 7 return, Maxxima 35 RO/DI, 10K MH pendant, 2 x 15W actinic, 1 yellow tail damsel, 1 high fin goby, 40lbs LR.com rock, 1 red head goby, 1 algae blenny, Leather, blastomussa, sun, and hammer corals, green polyps, carpet anemone, 2 sexy shrimp...and more LR critters than you could imagine in your worst nightmares.... Mantis in 5 gal
Brad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 12:19 AM   #4
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: edmonton
Posts: 685
Good luck Brad I know that can be a huge pain in te a@@
__________________
Edmonton Eskimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 01:50 AM   #5
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: chestermere canada eh
Posts: 429
i had a bad case of it last year and phosban creaned it up in a 2 or 3 day period this year i have it in 2 out of 3 tanks and cant kick it the only tank with no skimmer is clean go figure wich makes be believe its a overfeeding problem but cut back feedings arenot helpin either i had a bottle of red slime remover i resorted to just to get it cut down to a managable state but im to scared to use enough to work its only on my sand in high flow areas

dam sound like im goin cyno crazy too

if i knew how to post a pic we could have a cyno battle and see who has it worse
__________________
i have crabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 08:22 AM   #6
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Athens, TN.
Posts: 3,598
Brad,

Get some Chemi clean, While I don;t normally recommend chemicals I used this in my 150 that the whole bottom was nasty with redish black cyno, I only treated once and it cleared it up. I still haven't found the cause for it myself and it's been 3 weeks and it hasn't come back.
__________________
Gerald

Vote for AquariumAdvice
dralarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 09:40 PM   #7
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 754
After giving the sand bed a good vaccuum, the cyano returned stronger in 24 hours...stronger than before. Maybe that is a clue.
__________________
40 Gal Hex, 10 Gal Sump, CPR overflow with Mag 7 return, Maxxima 35 RO/DI, 10K MH pendant, 2 x 15W actinic, 1 yellow tail damsel, 1 high fin goby, 40lbs LR.com rock, 1 red head goby, 1 algae blenny, Leather, blastomussa, sun, and hammer corals, green polyps, carpet anemone, 2 sexy shrimp...and more LR critters than you could imagine in your worst nightmares.... Mantis in 5 gal
Brad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 09:48 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
Just curious, how old is the tank? What salt mix do you use? I've noticed many people w/ cyano issues lately I have a bit of a problem now w/ cyano, never did for the first 1.5 years...
__________________
Mike
MT79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 11:09 PM   #9
steve-s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
What is your main food source? Brand/type? I also see no mention of a skimmer?

Cheers
Steve
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 02:02 AM   #10
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
MarineFlake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Memphis, Tn
Posts: 816
I get a little cyano every now and again. I have a sand sifting star that keeps the sand turned over though. As for growth anywhere else, it was mentioned on a post here some time ago that cyano is related to silicates. You mentioned the use of RO/DI..when was the last time you actually replaced the membrane and DI filter? The DI filter is only good for roughly 6 moths tops. Most likely less if you've run a lot of water through it. If you are at wits end it may be wise to look under rocks and see if you have something dead somewhere in the system though I would really expect to see po3/po4 issues with something dead in the tank. I will say that couple folks have reported excellent results with the Two Little Fishes PhosBan reactor. I have had mine installed (properly) for about 4 days. po4 is 0. I do not have a silicate test kit so I cannot vouch that it would indeed help you *if* you are experiencing some type of Si problem. However, if your about to lose the system, a $35 reactor and a 90G / hr pump seems like a small 'last ditch' expense..

Best of luck to you.
__________________
To fail to plan is to plan to fail.
MarineFlake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 10:50 AM   #11
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 617
I've been going through this same struggle. The tide seems to have finally turned for me though. It looks to be improving. I've been feeding a very tiny amount once a week. Since starting that about 6 weeks ago, I think things have started to turn around. It's not gone, but at least it's not covering my sand bed in a matter of days anymore.
__________________
Gatorfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 02:04 PM   #12
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 154
I used Red Slime Remover.

The first time I used it, the cyano came back. I dosed again a couple months later and it hasn't come back since. (knock on wood). It's been maybe 5 months since I did that.

Unfortunately, the cyano went away and the hair algae took over.
__________________
"Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly." -Batman Costume warning label
Mrbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 03:23 AM   #13
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 754
The tank has been running as a reef for about 15 months now. Skimmer is a Prism Pro. I know...everyone hates the Prism Pro, but it certainly skims enough that I have to clean it out weekly, so I think it is working pretty well.

I mix my foods, but feed mostly assorted frozen stuff once every 2 days. I had been feeding DTs as well, but I've cut that out now. I think that many of my filter feeders are dying now either because of the cyano or lack of food.

I've tested the various frozen foods for phosphates and some are worse than others. Regardless, there is no detectable phosphate in the tank.

I've always used Kent salt. No particular reason. I've tested fresh salt mix and not found any phosphates. Nevertheless, I sometimes think that the cyano seems to return faster if I INCREASE the size of a water exchange.

SPS corals all look great. In fact, they are doing really, really well. My mushroom leather isn't happy though, and my star polyps haven't opened in weeks.

SpG is at 1.023 (hydrometre measurement...so you have to adjust that one based on 80 degrees...might be 1.024 or so...), Nitrate - 0; Phosphate - 0; Ca - 380; Alk - 2.86mEq; Ph - 8.3 (approx - test kit);

My Magnesium is low (1050ppm). I've tried adding some Seachem Mg, but I think I would have to add the entire bottle to make a difference. I can't see Mg being the problem though.

Kalk is delivered 24/7 through a dosing pump.

Where I'm at now is I am aggressively vaccuuming my sand bed and replacing 5% water daily. I've done that 3 days in a row now.
__________________
40 Gal Hex, 10 Gal Sump, CPR overflow with Mag 7 return, Maxxima 35 RO/DI, 10K MH pendant, 2 x 15W actinic, 1 yellow tail damsel, 1 high fin goby, 40lbs LR.com rock, 1 red head goby, 1 algae blenny, Leather, blastomussa, sun, and hammer corals, green polyps, carpet anemone, 2 sexy shrimp...and more LR critters than you could imagine in your worst nightmares.... Mantis in 5 gal
Brad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 10:17 AM   #14
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 2,694
What about your water source? Are you using RO/DI water? I had some some luck after changing out the DI filter in my RO unit. It was practilly brand new but I chnaged it anyway. Cyano went away.

I feel for you. I hate that stuff.
__________________
*180 gal Display, 100 gal basement sump, 33 gal refugium, 3x250 MH, 2x160 VHO actinics, zoos, some softies, LPS & lots of acros and other SPS.
*100 gal prop tank plumbed into main system w/ 2x96 PC lights and 1x150 MH,
ellisz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 02:08 PM   #15
steve-s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
The tank has been running as a reef for about 15 months now. Skimmer is a Prism Pro. I know...everyone hates the Prism Pro, but it certainly skims enough that I have to clean it out weekly, so I think it is working pretty well.
No arguement from me, I have the Pro deluxe

Quote:
I've tested the various frozen foods for phosphates and some are worse than others. Regardless, there is no detectable phosphate in the tank.
This is what often misleads people, the lack of detectable PO4. The cyano is consuming it as fast as it enters the system. Also keep in mind, test kits cannot read organic forms of PO4, only inorganic. The simple fact is, cyano is dependant on phosphates to survive. No PO4, no cyano. Nitrogens play a role as well but not with the same dependancey as phosphates.

Quote:
I've always used Kent salt. No particular reason. I've tested fresh salt mix and not found any phosphates. Nevertheless, I sometimes think that the cyano seems to return faster if I INCREASE the size of a water exchange.
It's not the salt itself but what all salt contains, I've used Kent salt for over 10 years without issue. The elements added each time will somewhat contribute to cyano growth. If you do not use RO/DI as ellisz pointed out, that will be a huge contributor. RO alone will not help either. Keep in mind as well cyano can actually manufacture it's own food sources to some degree keeping it alive so any amount of added nutrient is growth material.

Quote:
Ca - 380; Alk - 2.86mEq;
The Ca could use a good boost based on your alk level but this isn't really a contributor nor is the Mg.


Quote:
Where I'm at now is I am aggressively vaccuuming my sand bed and replacing 5% water daily.
Cyano control in the sandbed is best accomplished with conch snails. They are about the only thing that will consume it purposefully. Siphoning off the rocks and such is a good goal though. Remove the algae and you export some nutrient with it.

IME, your best solution is rethink some of your food types (not so much feeding schedule), RO/DI water unless already used and possibley the use of a ferric oxide PO4 sponge. You might eventually kick the cyano through water changes and better food choices but it doesn't hurt to help it along, especially in removing organic PO4. Once in the system it becomes a never ending chemical circle.

Cheers
Steve
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 04:21 PM   #16
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
Quote:
your best solution is rethink some of your food types (not so much feeding schedule)
Steve, what would recommend? A specific commercial brand/blend, blender mush...? Sorry about the hijack Brad, I could use some help also. Thanks
__________________
Mike
MT79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 07:10 PM   #17
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 754
Water has always been RO/DI.

Quote:
the lack of detectable PO4. The cyano is consuming it as fast as it enters the system. Also keep in mind, test kits cannot read organic forms of PO4, only inorganic.
That is a thought...I've been using some RowaPhos off and on lately. I haven't left it in for long periods since I couldn't detect any Phosphate. I'll just leave it in there for a while.

Today we'll do more sand vaccuuming and replace a LARGE amount of tank water.
__________________
40 Gal Hex, 10 Gal Sump, CPR overflow with Mag 7 return, Maxxima 35 RO/DI, 10K MH pendant, 2 x 15W actinic, 1 yellow tail damsel, 1 high fin goby, 40lbs LR.com rock, 1 red head goby, 1 algae blenny, Leather, blastomussa, sun, and hammer corals, green polyps, carpet anemone, 2 sexy shrimp...and more LR critters than you could imagine in your worst nightmares.... Mantis in 5 gal
Brad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 01:30 AM   #18
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana USA
Posts: 2,694
Quote:
Water has always been RO/DI.
Good, but make sure your filters are not old. When I got my RO/DI unit, I could get a PO4 reading from the RO/DI water. I had to change the DI filter to correct the problem. The unit was almost new as well.

Just a thought.
__________________
*180 gal Display, 100 gal basement sump, 33 gal refugium, 3x250 MH, 2x160 VHO actinics, zoos, some softies, LPS & lots of acros and other SPS.
*100 gal prop tank plumbed into main system w/ 2x96 PC lights and 1x150 MH,
ellisz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 03:10 PM   #19
steve-s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT79
Quote:
your best solution is rethink some of your food types (not so much feeding schedule)
Steve, what would recommend? A specific commercial brand/blend, blender mush...? Sorry about the hijack Brad, I could use some help also. Thanks
It's not that I actually recommend one over the other, moreso that I highly suggest reading the label. Many types of dried foods especially contain vitamin substitutes that are quite high in organic PO4 and usable iron. L-Ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a type of vitamin C) being high on the list but be equally as wary of those that just say "vitamins" without actually listing what types.

If your having nuisance algae issues, switch to a frozen prepared food. Either make it yourself (best option) or look for one that is more basic in nutritional value. Being frozen, most manufactureres do not need to add preservatives and can use actual stabalized vitamin C instead of the alternative.

Cheers
Steve
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cyano

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Double end vs single end MH tripseven General Hardware/Equipment Discussion 6 01-10-2009 01:32 PM
When does cycle end? uscamaro Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 10 02-05-2008 07:44 PM
At my wits end! Danio35 Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 1 01-17-2005 09:16 PM
When will it ever end? sissy58 Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 4 05-25-2004 01:58 PM
Should I end his suffering?? CareBear3030 Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 4 12-07-2003 09:11 PM







» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.