It was a fun three days... <sigh>

[amahler]

The Imperator arrived Saturday - acclimated perfectly, started eating gorgeously the next night and happily takes seaweed, Angel Formula, and Formula Two.

Tonight - the fourth night I've had him - he started hand feeding for goodness sake.

He is also now covered from head to tail in ich... or best I can tell. Nothing else in the tank has it nor has anyone had it. This comes as a complete shock aside from that voice in the back of my head saying "this is going too well, you've had no problems and this fish cost you a wad".

So... I'm feeling rather screwed at the moment on my options. I have no QT tank available and no chance of using copper in this tank.

I was photographing him at 1:30 AM with no signs of this whatsoever. 5 PM todayI go to feed them (when he started hand feeding - apparently just to twist the knife a bit more for me emotionally, I suppose) and realize he is covered in white dots including his fins, tail and eyeballs.

He was visiting the cleaner shrimp a lot last night (which led to the photos I posted that many of us have been chatting about) and now I think I know why. Of course I've not seen him visiting the cleaner tonight.

His behavior seems unchanged and, aside from the freakin' white dots all over him, I'd say things were perfect. Any chance whatsoever he's going to recover from this or am I about to watch my tank go straight into the dumper?

- Aaron

[gooyferret]

I would recommend feeding garlic with his food every feeding. And selcon, is another good additive for the food. IF youdont have a QT tank this will be your best hope. That or you could go purchase a little 10gal tank and use that as QT. Sorry to hear about the ICH im battling it in my tank also. Good Luck.

[amahler]

Thanks... I don't seem to have much choice but to ride it out and see what happens.

It's just irritating in a huge way. Everything seems to be going perfectly, finally get the fish I've wanted for years, have a great acclimation and then "blam". I thought I was beating the odds.

I have a little eye-dropper bottle of a garlic solution (it came with the system and all the other paraphenalia). How is this best used? I did a feeding already tonight, so do I hold off until tomorrow?

Thanks!
- Aaron

[amahler]

I have to ask one thing as I think about it. Is Ich just a major curse just for those of us trying to keep the ocean in our living rooms or is it highly prevelant in nature?

Are we concentrating it and making the possibilities greater for our fish, or does Ich claim fish in the ocean with similar regularity?

Thanks!
- Aaron

[gooyferret]

Well not sure about the ocean and ICH aspect but my guess is that its not as common in the ocean since its so vast and natural. I would feed him garlic just dropped onto the food and then add a little SW and mix around every feeding.

[sango]

If you dont treat him there is a very big chance that he will die. Go get a 10 gal qt tank or a rubbermaid container....Good Luck

[twilyte]

good luck aaron .. i pray your angel turns out allright.. and yes, QT is probably the only way to go... good luck.

[amahler]

Well, when I said "making the chances greater for our fish", I meant greater chances of succumbing to it, not to surviving.

I just can't believe the degree to which he appears to have it in less than 24 hours.

The cleaner shrimp is riding him like a bronco tonight. I'm getting more pictures of it that I'm working on right now. I'll post them in a bit.

Thanks!
- Aaron

[amahler]

Will a 10 gallon QT do the trick for a 4" Imp? Doesn't seem like a lot of room.

I assume I use water from the existing tank? What kind of filtration?

Basically, how quickly can I set this up? Is this a trip to Wal-Mart now at 10 PM for basic fishtank supplies or hit the LFS tomorrow?

How long will he stay in QT and what is the preferred treatment?

- Aaron

[ironmanxl1]

I'm dealing with the same thing in my tank. You'll need a tank and a sponge filter. Take some biomedia out of your tank so there is no cycle in the QT. Then buy some copper. i'll be doing this tonight as well. I've learned my lesson. QT every fish before putting it in the main tank!

[amahler]

Here's my other question about QT...

Theory is there is always ich in your tank. So I introduce this new angel without QT and for four days things are going gorgeously, from eating to behavior, etc.

Today he's covered in ich.

Did he have it and it "broke out" after arrival? Did he arrive healthy and succumb to it in this tank? Would he have succumbed in the QT tank or not until after his QT period and then placement in the potentially ich-ridden main tank?

I guess I'm trying to understand all the ins and outs of this... not doubting the wisdom of QT at all - just trying to figure out how this menace works.

- Aaron

[Scatcat]

Sorry Aaron--I can feel your pain. It's frustrating.

[amahler]

Ok - some pictures - last night and tonight.

I think you can figure out which is which.

- Aaron

[dralarms]

Get some ruby reef's kick ich. Don't follow the dosage though, treat every other day. I have used it twice and been sucessful both times. HTH

[amahler]

Here is a gallery of detailed shots and quite a few of our cleaning shrimp working overtime on the Imp.

http://sparhawk.sbc.edu/tank/ich

I'd so prefer to NOT be getting this picture taking opportunity...

- Aaron

P.S. I've attached a sample photo or two and will post this in a separate thread for those not following this one that might want to see cleaning shrimp and ich up close.

[revhtree]

Man Aaron this stinks. Sorry for the ich out break.

As far as the qt is concerned, it will really do no good to qt him unless you qt all your fish and leave your main fishless for 6 weeks or more. Here is what I would do depending on your bio-load:

Go to wally world and get a 30g rubbermaid tub, you know the somewhat clear ones, and set it up. It will be just as cheap as a 10g and be alot better on the fish. Mix up 30g of salt water tonight. Tomorrow evening put 15g into the new qt, and take out 15g from the main. Add the exsisting freshly mixed sw to the main. You are not going to be able to cycle the qt, but if you have a sponge or something from the main or maybe even some bioballs you could seed the qt. Put you in a heater, a nice hob filter with just a sponge in the back, no media, a PH, and cupramine and start your qt journey. This is what I have done. You will need to use a decent light towards the end of treatment to really get down and check the fish. You will also need a Seachem copper test as well. Your only other option will be to use hypo, but youll need a refractometer.

HTH!

[revhtree]

Also dont forget to pick up some different size PVC fittings for the fish to hide while in qt.

[amahler]

Lovely.

Thanks for the detailed advice, revhtree... I'll try and get started on this or the closest approximation I can pull off.

Just when it was getting good...
- Aaron

[MarineFlake]

I am not at all experienced with ich. However, if you have cleaners and the fish is eating, I would be tempted to ride it out. Tossing a new fish already obviously stressed into some rubbermaid container full of fresh salt water just seems to go against common sense. Alk/Ph/Salinity/Temp all would have to be right on. Honestly if it were me (I know, its not..) I would give him a couple days. If it gets worse, surely pull it out if not only for the sake of the other fish. I would'nt take the hand feeding as a sign of smooth acclimation. I would call it one hungry/desperate to eat fish. I have had my tang for about a year and it will just now take seaweed from the feeder in my hand. I would consider lights out for a couple days and feed as needed. Just keep an eye on the illness that it doesn't get much worse. My advice for what its worth and no matter what you decide, best of luck.

Make sure to read ALL of it..

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...ral_pagesid=78

[amahler]

This brings me back to my questions about ich in general. If it always lives in my tank and none of my other fish have it, does the fact that a fish comes down with it mean they all will? The theory is his immune system is weakened but the others are not.

It there any level of immunity fish develop from prior cases?

Is it that a fish succumbing increases the level of attack they are resisting normally and that starts a domino effect?

This hobby can sure make one paranoid.

Also, is the cleaner shrimp picking off the actual parasites when he's working?

I sure hope he's not a desperately hungry fish. He's had a few inches of seaweed in the tank for two out of the four days (eaten entirely), does lots of picking among the rocks and has eaten well during the feedings. To add to the paranoia, how does one draw a line between underfeeding and overfeeding?

Thanks!
- Aaron