live rocks/sand

[lukasnca]

I was thinking about getting live sand from liverocks.com but they don't sell it anymore. I was mostly just interested in seeing what kind of stuff would come (and survive the trip) from the ocean.

Has anyone bought sand from them? Was there anything interesting in it? Are there other places that sell this type of sand as well?

On a [un]related noted ... has anyone bought anything from floridaliverock.com? Any other interesting places that have nice live rock?

Thanks!
Luke.

[ellisz]

I have got LR from LR.com and floridaliverock.com aka gulfview(their old name). The rock from floridaliverock looked better but had some clams(turkey wings) that did not make the trip. I ended up with some serious die off. I think I got LS from them too. Sand was nice and saw a few critters but nothing special. I like the Southdown sand better once seeded. Looks nicer.

LR.com has excellent rock and is well liked. I added their rock straight to my display and had little to no ammonia spike. Color was not as nice as gulfview though. I asked for no clams though. They are both FL rock and I have seen stunning pics of LR.coms rock so I know there is better than what I got.

HTH

[ClamKnuckle]

i got LR and LS from lr.com

Between the rock and the sand i got a few different types of snails, star fish, a pencil urchin, a ton of worms, pods, and, unfortunately, some crabs.

There was absolutely a ton of life on the rock as well as in the sand. The rock also has a ton of color to it. I highly recommend the...if they don't sell the LS anymore thats too bad because i loved it

[malkore]

LS is more about having the healthy bacteria, than live critters. if you want critters get live rock. LR.com's keys rock has some critters...they told me their gulf rock has more, but they seem to keep less of it on hand, because there's less demand. everyone prefers the color of the keys rock

[lukasnca]

I actually already have some of rcok from liverocks.com -- I bought some of their coral rock about 2 mos ago.

I was looking at wetwebmedia's faqs last night and ran across some articles on florida rock that I hadn't seen before. According to the faqs florida/atlantic rock isn't great for sw aquariums (unless its altlantic biotype) due to its density. Its nice rock but based on this I'm rethinking my plans to buy more...

Any thoughts?

[66deuce]

I bought some Walt Smith collected Fiji LR and am very pleased with it. There was some (black) die off, but there is still lots excellent growth. It even had a Fiji Times newspaper inside the box of LR! LOL! So far, 4 days later, I have had no amonia spike and the LR is looking better by the day! I bought black LS (was really black and white) and the brand was Aragalive. The bag had an expiration date on it that was about 8 months away. I haven't had any abnormal readings from my tank and I used 1 20lb bag mixed with 3 20lb bags of (beautiful!) Tahitian Moon black sand.

[lukasnca]

Doesn't the black sand mess up your pH?

[malkore]

tahitian moon sand doesn't affect pH..it's inert so it doesn't buffer.

[Zack]

I was looking at wetwebmedia's faqs last night and ran across some articles on florida rock that I hadn't seen before. According to the faqs florida/atlantic rock isn't great for sw aquariums (unless its altlantic biotype) due to its density. Its nice rock but based on this I'm rethinking my plans to buy more...

I don't understand how it can be bad becuase of its density. I will read more on this article and get back to you. Our rock is a little bit (not much at all) denser then fiji, buthas 1 the life that will make it to your aquarium.

[Zack]

I was looking at wetwebmedia's faqs last night and ran across some articles on florida rock that I hadn't seen before. According to the faqs florida/atlantic rock isn't great for sw aquariums (unless its altlantic biotype) due to its density. Its nice rock but based on this I'm rethinking my plans to buy more...

I don't understand how it can be bad becuase of its density. I will read more on this article and get back to you. Our rock is a little bit (not much at all) denser then fiji, buthas 1 the life that will make it to your aquarium.

[lukasnca]

Yeah ... I remember that life ... Forget aliens vs predator ... it was me versus the huge xenia eating bristle worm. Anyway the coral on your coral rock is very cool. If you can figure out why that wetwebmedia stuff is wrong I'll gladly buy some more.

[Zack]

Hey
I did a couple searches on wetwebmedia and came across where they talk about being denser and even a couple guys said they prefered it, but did not see where it was not as good filtration. Do you have a link?

[lukasnca]

That's the one thing that I don't like about wetwebmedia ... its sometimes difficult to find exactly what you are looking for.

Anyway its repeated over and over in the live rock selection FAQs:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lrselfaqs.htm

[Zack]

That is what i read last night and saw some of the guys mention how it is heavier rock, but not where it is not as good filtration.

[lukasnca]

"but that because of its density it is more limited in potential biological faculties, microfauna, etc"

"However, since it like most any Atlantic rock, it is formed by sedimentation (or dense encrusted scleractinians like palmate acroporas)... as such, it is arguably not as biologically diverse or efficient as the porous Pacific isle rocks like Fiji. Kindly, Anthony"

[Zack]

I think Mr Calfo is talking about "wild Atlantic Rock" probably imported from Haiti or Brazil. The term "Atlantic Rock" is not a category of geology. I believe he is referring to wild live rock harvested in the Atlantic ocean out side the USA. The only live rock that can be legally harvested in the US territorial waters is aquaculture. Those of us who build reefs here in Florida use different geology from company to company and there is no blanket term like Atlantic Rock to describe the different types of geology each company used to build its reef. I also notice he compares it to Fiji rock. Bottom line is two different independent government funded college research programs have tested Fiji live rock at 37.5% phosphate. You can dance around this verses that all day but in the end the phosphate level is to high and causes green and brown algae in the reef tank. Here is the geologic description for the rock Triton Marine Inc. used to build our reefs. This description can be found on our web page www.liverocks.com by clicking the research button.
The rock chosen for this aquaculture site originates from southeast Florida. This limestone is part of the Bryozoan facies of the Miami Limestone. This rock is characterized as a white to yellowish granular limestone. Occurrences of iron staining on the rock are common and variable. The rock is a biosparite according to Folk’s classification of carbonate rocks. It is well lithified but may be somewhat friable on the surface, due to the matrix of oolitic sand. The rock is fossiliferous with large tubular branches of bryozoans crisscrossed within the rock. These bryozoan branches are in a matrix of oolitic carbonate sand with abundant juvenile pelecypod molds. The natural porosity of this rock has resulted in its forming one of the more transmissive aquifers in the State of Florida.
The flow of groundwater through the rock has caused significant recrystallization and weathering of the rock, as well as replacement of the fossil shell material. Calcite crystal and large voids have resulted. The natural porosity, lightweight, and aesthetic look of the Miami Limestone, Bryozoan Facies, make this rock well suited for aquaculture base rock. It's irregular surface and well-developed lithification will reduce the mobility of the rock placed on the sea floor.
The Miami Limestone, Bryzoan Facies has no counterpart paleontologically anywhere else in the world except in the Bahamas Platform. This will make identification of this rock on the West Florida Shelf very easy. There are no natural occurrences of oolitic carbonate sands in this area

[Zack]

I think Mr Calfo is talking about "wild Atlantic Rock" probably imported from Haiti or Brazil. The term "Atlantic Rock" is not a category of geology. I believe he is referring to wild live rock harvested in the Atlantic ocean out side the USA. The only live rock that can be legally harvested in the US territorial waters is aquaculture. Those of us who build reefs here in Florida use different geology from company to company and there is no blanket term like Atlantic Rock to describe the different types of geology each company used to build its reef. I also notice he compares it to Fiji rock. Bottom line is two different independent government funded college research programs have tested Fiji live rock at 37.5% phosphate. You can dance around this verses that all day but in the end the phosphate level is to high and causes green and brown algae in the reef tank. Here is the geologic description for the rock Triton Marine Inc. used to build our reefs. This description can be found on our web page www.liverocks.com by clicking the research button.
The rock chosen for this aquaculture site originates from southeast Florida. This limestone is part of the Bryozoan facies of the Miami Limestone. This rock is characterized as a white to yellowish granular limestone. Occurrences of iron staining on the rock are common and variable. The rock is a biosparite according to Folk’s classification of carbonate rocks. It is well lithified but may be somewhat friable on the surface, due to the matrix of oolitic sand. The rock is fossiliferous with large tubular branches of bryozoans crisscrossed within the rock. These bryozoan branches are in a matrix of oolitic carbonate sand with abundant juvenile pelecypod molds. The natural porosity of this rock has resulted in its forming one of the more transmissive aquifers in the State of Florida.
The flow of groundwater through the rock has caused significant recrystallization and weathering of the rock, as well as replacement of the fossil shell material. Calcite crystal and large voids have resulted. The natural porosity, lightweight, and aesthetic look of the Miami Limestone, Bryozoan Facies, make this rock well suited for aquaculture base rock. It's irregular surface and well-developed lithification will reduce the mobility of the rock placed on the sea floor.
The Miami Limestone, Bryzoan Facies has no counterpart paleontologically anywhere else in the world except in the Bahamas Platform. This will make identification of this rock on the West Florida Shelf very easy. There are no natural occurrences of oolitic carbonate sands in this area

[lukasnca]

Most of the article refers to Tampa Bay Saltwater (tampbaysaltwater.com) which as I understand does pretty much the same thing as liverocks.com. They have aquacultured rock that they mined somewhere else and dropped into the keys/gulf.

Anyway I'm by no means an expert in this area -- just found it interesting. Most of the fiji rock that I've seen has coralline on it but nothing else of interest. Like I said ... I really liked the coral on your coral rock (though I wish that there was more of it on the rock) so I might end up getting some more anyway.