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Old 02-21-2007, 06:14 PM   #1
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Long Nose butterfly better than Copper Banded Butterfly?

Hey all,

I wanted to find out if the Long Nose Butterfly is any better than the copper banded butterfly, as for survivability?

There have been 3 fish that I have wanted from the beginning of starting this hobby. #1 Copper Banded Butterfly, #2 Powder Blue Tank, #3 Long Nose Butterfly.

After 3 unsuccessfull attempts at the Copper Banded Butterfly, I began looking at the Powder Blue Tang, and from what i've read, they are just like the Copper Banded, almost impossible to keep alive.

I started looking more at the Long Nose Butterfly, and haven't found much bad said about them. So I thought I'd ask?

It seams most of the fish the LFS order are known not to survive, Which makes me question the LFS's. But The Long nose is also available at many LFS's so I thought i'd get some input first.

I do have a reef tank with LR, and Soft corals. Mostly polyps. The things I read about the long nose said they could pick at polyps but no one reported this problem.

I also read the the Long Nose Butterfly's will eat Aiptasia, which would be nice. I had 2 Aiptasia's in my tank, which I purchased Joes Juice, But The just keep coming back, and every time they come back, they bring fiends. So a natural way of ridding them would be nice.

Thanks for the help,

-TheChad
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:31 PM   #2
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http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=350

http://www.fantasyreef.com/database/...d=7&item_id=37
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Old 02-21-2007, 08:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melosu58
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=350

http://www.fantasyreef.com/database/...d=7&item_id=37

Hi melosu,

Thanks for the links. I frequent LiveAquaria, But I did read the info at fantasyreef. What exactly does "Eats Inverts" Mean?

I am not sure what exactly you are saying with those 2 links!? Good or bad choice?

Thanks,

-TheChad
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:02 PM   #4
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Keep in mind a 55 gal is going to be small for both a long nose butterfly and/or PB tang.
Quote:
I had 2 Aiptasia's in my tank, ...they come back, they bring fiends. So a natural way of ridding them would be nice.
FWIW peppermint shrimp have worked well for me, if your interested in keeping inverts.
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:04 PM   #5
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What exactly does "Eats Inverts" Mean?
Usually means it eats pods and/or ornamental shrimp, crabs etc.
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT79
Keep in mind a 55 gal is going to be small for both a long nose butterfly and/or PB tang.
Quote:
I had 2 Aiptasia's in my tank, ...they come back, they bring fiends. So a natural way of ridding them would be nice.
FWIW peppermint shrimp have worked well for me, if your interested in keeping inverts.
Yeah, This 55g Tank is going to be upgraded to a 125 or bigger next year. We are in the process of finding land to build a home on, where we will build an in-wall tank.

I always buy my fish small. I like to watch them grow, and by the time they are full size the'll be in bigger tanks. My clowns have only grown maybe 1/8-1/4" in 1.5 years. So they are now only about 1"-1 1/4"

I want to get a pepermint shrimp, but the LFS's only ever have small ones, and I already have 2 Full size shrimp (Skunk cleaner, and Red Fire Shrimp), I am worried if I buy a small Pepermint shrimp, the other 2 will kill him before he gets big.

Thanks,

-TheChad
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:11 PM   #7
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The forceps fish, is hardy, *IF* *IF* *IF*, you can get it to eat. Make sure that you see the fish eating at the store. Not picking off the rocks, but eating food they give it. That is also the same situation with the Copperband Butterfly.

Eats inverts, in that case, means it will nip corals and tube worms.
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hara
The forceps fish, is hardy, *IF* *IF* *IF*, you can get it to eat. Make sure that you see the fish eating at the store. Not picking off the rocks, but eating food they give it. That is also the same situation with the Copperband Butterfly.

Eats inverts, in that case, means it will nip corals and tube worms.

The Copperband is just plain impossible to keep. All 3 of the one's I had Ate just fine. But they all died. No reason, Just died. They were all eating, 2 out of 3 of them had Ich but were cured showing no signs for a couple of weeks, come home from work one day, and they die. Not showing any signs as to why.

Fantasy Reef says nips at corals: No Eats inverts: yes

I am guessing inverts in this case means feather dusters..

-TheChad
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:13 AM   #9
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I agree with Hara...make the LFS feed the fish...heck put a deposit on the fish and have them keep it for a while....see how it does....a lot of the time fish come in and are gone before the LFS really has a chance to see how they act and react.
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Old 02-22-2007, 08:26 AM   #10
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The copperband is NOT impossible to keep..I have had mine over a year. Lando had his for a long time, lost it just recently due to the tank leak.
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Old 02-22-2007, 06:38 PM   #11
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Sorry I took so long Chad but I just posted for information sake. Not saying yey or nay just for info. Mrs Hara stated what I meant on inverts.
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Old 02-22-2007, 11:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hara
The copperband is NOT impossible to keep..I have had mine over a year. Lando had his for a long time, lost it just recently due to the tank leak.
Lucky You?

I gave up after 4 died.


I just purchased a Long Nose today. Hopefully he'll stay away from my Corals.

I do have a few small feather dusters that were in my LR, If he eats those, I wont be mad, but i'd be nice if he stayed away from em.

With the rapid growth of polyp's If he does "nip" at them, I assume it wont actually hurt them?

-TheChad
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:26 AM   #13
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I dont think luck has anything to do with it.

As for the polyps, once a fish takes a liking to something it is usually pretty persistant about picking at it long term. No coral is going to live through that for very long.
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Old 02-23-2007, 11:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hara
I dont think luck has anything to do with it.

As for the polyps, once a fish takes a liking to something it is usually pretty persistant about picking at it long term. No coral is going to live through that for very long.
If not luck, Then please share your secrets? I pampered mine, and they still died.

I've been reading alot about the Long Nose, and I havent seen any reports of them picking at corals, So cross my fingers mine will leave my corals alone.

-TheChad
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Old 02-23-2007, 11:20 AM   #15
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There is no secret, you make sure you see them eating before you buy them. Then you make sure their environment suits their needs, alot of rock, alot of small enriched meaty food such as brine and the smaller varieties of mysis. A tank that doesnt have tankmates prone to harass them as well.
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Old 02-23-2007, 03:02 PM   #16
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I agree with Mrs hara that I dont leave mine up to luck. I try to do everything I need to do from PWC`s every week to proper feeding. Mrs Hara gave a pretty good list also. I`m not saying you dont do those but just making a point. Alot of times I say good Luck at the end of a post but I really need to stop saying that. We need to stop relying on luck and rely on just doing the right thing. I`m not saying any of this because of you Chad. It just made me think out loud.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melosu58
I agree with Mrs hara that I dont leave mine up to luck. I try to do everything I need to do from PWC`s every week to proper feeding. Mrs Hara gave a pretty good list also. I`m not saying you dont do those but just making a point. Alot of times I say good Luck at the end of a post but I really need to stop saying that. We need to stop relying on luck and rely on just doing the right thing. I`m not saying any of this because of you Chad. It just made me think out loud.

I think alot of it does have to do with luck.

The Luck part is getting a good fish to begin with. Even if you do everything right.

I can tell you that I went out of my way to do EXTRA PWC's, and test the water every day, and fed several times a day in QT, to try and keep my CB's alive. But they all died after about a month.

With none of them having any signs before they died, I can't even begin to figure out WHY they died.

I have this problem alot. I do my very best to select the best fish at the LFS, I spend atleast 3 hours at the LFS when I make a purchase. I do 1-2 hour drip acclimation, I feed more often, and do more PWC's, and test more often than probably 90% of people in this hobby... Yet I loose alot of fish in the first 3-6 weeks. If they live longer than that, I don't have any problem with them.

Am I doing something wrong? Its possible, But I do everything that everyone has told me I am suppose to do.

One thing that tells me my tank is happy, is that My soft corals are EXTREMELY happy, They are growing at an excelerated rate, and show no signs of being unhappy.

If corals are suppose to be one of the most sensative life in this hobby, then I must be doing something right....

Just as an example... I had a porclin crab, he was doing great, he was filtering food all day long, happy as could be. I woke up yesterday to see his body pull apart laying all around the sand bed. Why? I don't believe anything else in the tank would have messed with him unless he was already dead. So why'd he die? This is what is beyond my understanding.

How does life in the tank look good one day, and the next its laying on the sand bed dead, or in pieces? (Thanks hermits)

-TheChad
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:12 PM   #18
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Soft corals are fairly forgiving and adaptable when it comes to water quality. Lets look at the other things you mentioned. Feeding..how often do you feed? Feeding too much not only affects water quality, but I find fish have less of an appetite. Except for very few instances, there is not really a need to feed more often then every other day. What types of food are you feeding as well?

Was your crab really dead? or are you seeing the molt? They will hide for a few days after molting.

After all is said and done, look at the source of your livestock. Is there a common denominator between where you are buying your fish and the fish that die?

I also saw your post on aiptasia..aiptasia thrives in less then perfect water conditions. Could you give us some chemistry numbers to look at?
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hara
Soft corals are fairly forgiving and adaptable when it comes to water quality. Lets look at the other things you mentioned. Feeding..how often do you feed? Feeding too much not only affects water quality, but I find fish have less of an appetite. Except for very few instances, there is not really a need to feed more often then every other day. What types of food are you feeding as well?

Was your crab really dead? or are you seeing the molt? They will hide for a few days after molting.

After all is said and done, look at the source of your livestock. Is there a common denominator between where you are buying your fish and the fish that die?

I also saw your post on aiptasia..aiptasia thrives in less then perfect water conditions. Could you give us some chemistry numbers to look at?
I feed 1 cube of Mysis shrimp each day. I feed it over the course of the whole day. I know feeding extra can cause water problems, but That is why I keep up on water changes, and I never really have a problem with my water.

I am about 99% sure the crab was dead. I've seen plenty of moltings, and this didn't look like a molting.

A few Aptasia's to me is alot, since i've never had them before. I only had maybe 6. They came in on a few pieces of LR I purchased, Before that I never had them.

As for my Water, The only thing's that are out of spec right now is my Magnesium, and Calcium, which is because I never tested for them before, because I never really had a need to. Now that I am going Reef, and want to get my coraline going, I started testing and buffering them to get those where they are suppose to be.

This is what I test: Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 0-10ppm (on a really bad month), PH 8.0-8.4 (Usually 8.2-8.3), Phosphate: 0, dKH 13, Calcium: 410 (tested yesterday), Magnesium: 1024 (It was at 400 when I first started testing for it),

Is there anything else I should be testing for?

Thanks,

-TheChad
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:57 PM   #20
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If your water is stable at what you just listed, the water quality is not killing your fish. I will assume your temp is stable. That being said, I would still feed the fish every other day only.

Can you come up with a correlation between the fish that die and where you are buying them from?
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