My Blue Mandarin!!!

[Brenden]

8O Wow...Nothing really to add. Afilter is dead on. One thing good about this forum is if someone post bad advice to you someone else will call them on it. Hope you take heed. Good luck.

[TheRealFF]

Wait a second... Why do i still have to return the mandarin even though i got it to eat live/dead (some of the shrimps i kept in the 20G died) brine shrimps? It wouldnt die from starvation would it? Plus this fish wouldn't need that much space to swim, just food right?

[pkremer]

Brine shrimp is not a healthy diet, it is a "treat."

It is generally held that brine shrimp is the nutritional equivalent of Twinkies. You could eat Twinkies for every meal, and you might stay alive and look OK...however, after several weeks of this diet, you would begin to suffer from malnutrition, even though you would be getting fat. Eventually, your body would start to break down and you would end up very sick.

Feeding your mandarin a straight diet of brine shrimp would lead to the same results in your mandarin...he might even look fat, but he will be malnourished.

Just so you know, you are doing it again... You obviously want to keep him, and you are searching for someone to tell you it is OK to keep him. Every post on this board has given you the advice to take him back, and I guarantee you that will continue to be the advice here. The advice from experienced aquarists and "words from the wise" are to take it back. Ultimately, it will be your decision to heed or ignore the advice, but don't ask for help and then argue with the advice. The people here are responsible aquarists, and are just not going to tell you what you want to hear, they are going to tell you what is in the best interests of your fish.

Paul

[afilter]

TheRealFF,

Glad to see you are back. Sorry to see you still do not want to do what is best for the fish. I sent you a PM yesterday. Please read it.

[BeGiNeR_7]

I myself really wanted a mandarin at first until I was told they needed an established tank. I still would like to get one but I plan to wait until my tank is about 1.5 to 2 years old just to be sure. I think it is worth the wait to ensure the fish lasts a while. I am getting the feeling though that you will most likely keep this fish and just let things play on luck. I too think it is unwise but if you are going to keep it you need to look into something more nutritious than brine shrimp. Consider buying a product like what this place carries. If you are going to go against the advice provided than you should at least do everything else you can to try to give this fish a chance. Again, I am not condoning keeping the fish but I would like to show you this product for the fishes sake.

http://www.pacificeastaquaculture.co...l.aspx?ID=1554

[macman7010]

RealFF,

Does RealFF stand for Real Fish Friend? If it does I think you should return the mandarin to the LFS and possibly find a new fish outlet to shop at since I think those people you are dealing with are making a quick buck off your newbie status in the saltwater hobby.

To clear up some issues you may have. A 30 gallon tank is sparsly much bigger than a nano-reef, in this case you options where fish are concerned are very slim. If you do plan for it to be a reef than here is a good fish line up for you, once the tank is cycles and 3 weeks is not cycled - 3 months will be.

1 Purple Fishfish
2 False Percula Clownfish
1 Watchman Goby
3 Bangaii or Pajama Cardinals
1 Catalina Goby

That would be a sufficient and good line up for a 30 gallon reef tank. As for Manadarins they can be kept in 55 gallon tanks, even 30 gallon tanks if you have a refuge about 20-30 gallons that is ultra well established and teeming with live sand and live rock. The sad truth is FF your tank does not at this time have near the potential of housing a Mandarinfish.

As for feeding mandarins a diet of live and dead brine shrimp, that simply wont fill thier nutritional needs since brine shrimp is the popcorn of the sea.

[ryguy]

1 Purple Fishfish
2 False Percula Clownfish
1 Watchman Goby
3 Bangaii or Pajama Cardinals
1 Catalina Goby

macman, are you suggesting he put ALL 8 fish in his 29G tank? seriously?

On another note. I think he gets the picture about taking the mandarin back. I don't think there is a need for the sarcasm inherent in the question about his AA nickname.

[macman7010]

no i was just listing those as all potential tennants for his aquarium. all are recommended nano-fish that attain just a few inches in maximum size

[macman7010]

Originally Posted by TheRealFF

Wait a second... Why do i still have to return the mandarin even though i got it to eat live/dead (some of the shrimps i kept in the 20G died) brine shrimps? It wouldnt die from starvation would it? Plus this fish wouldn't need that much space to swim, just food right?

considering that I also assume he still attends to keep the mandarin

[tecwzrd]

TheRealFF, it still seems to me that despite all the advice to return the mandarin you will keep it regardless. For the sake of the fish please at least buy a hob refugium or in tank refugium so you can house live pods you can buy listed in the links below to give it a fighting chance!

www.reefnutrition.com
www.ipsf.com
www.inlandaquatics.com
www.seahorse.com

[afilter]

Sooooo... let me get this straight just to clarify for everyone:

1. Set up new 30g tank about 3 weeks ago (claim it cycles in 1 week contrary to advice)

2. Immediately overstock tank and it becomes ich infected and you decide ich is gone in less than a week because you cannot see it. Advised to wait and get a larger setup that will allow you to do what you want.

3. Buy coveted Mandarin Dragonette against advice of many ($20 fish)

4. Put dragonette in uncycled ich infested tank and claim it is the one that takes live and frozen brine ($5-15 month)

5. Buy copepods in a bottle ($30 month if one bottle will even last a month)

6. Now buy a HOB refugium ($150-$300)

So we are now spending $40-$50 a month for food plus another unknown amount for equipment just to maintain a fish that should not be there to begin with. Am I nuts or does this sound crazy to anyone else?

(At this point anyone with a comment on how they had a mandarin live in a fish bowl for 12 years only eating flake food please save them, this new hobbiest does not need that advice/irreesponsible encouragement)

Save your money return the fish and buy a larger setup in time that conventionally will allow you to do what you want.

You are headed down the wrong path and now you have convinced people to give you directions on how to get there. Turn around now.

If you do not the only advice I have for you from this point forward is that a 30g will make a nice hamster home once it is cleaned up. The hamster will probably last a lot longer than the mandarin that you are set on killing.

" You can lead the horse to water, but you cannot make it drink"
I have no more advice for you.

Good luck,

[tecwzrd]

Originally Posted by afilter

now you have convinced people to give you directions on how to get there. Turn around now.

I too would love to see the mandarin returned as that is what’s best for this fish. Not collecting it from the ocean would be even more ideal but as long as lfs continue to sell this fish that isn’t going to happen either.

My advice was given solely because RealFF is too stubborn to admit that the tank/conditions are not correct for a mandarin thus far. With that in mind a refugium and the mandarin’s natural food source (live pods) is it’s only chance of survival and even then it’s a slim one.

Lastly an in-tank refugium or external hob can be had from $30-$100 easily seen from the two links I provided and once you get pods they are not that hard to reproduce when protected from the main tank through the use of a refugium so the $30 a month cost is off as well.

Exaggerating costs I’m afraid will not deter RealFF if he/she is truly determined which seemed to be the case from all the posts I have read.

I also only have the best interest of the fish in mind when I give advice and still stand by my recommendations if RealFF continues to be stubborn and ignore the advice of the experienced regarding returning it back to the lfs.

[afilter]

tecwzrd,

Understand what you are saying, just disagree that is is a viable option in this case. I was basing price off something a bit larger like a CPR HOB fuge and the fact that it would not be able to suppport enough pods for an adult fish let alone two (oh yeah the poster forgot to mention they also have a scotter dragonette).

I am sure that there are examples out there where an experienced aquarist could pull it off. I'm afraid though that a newby who has already demonstarted a blatant disregard for accepted SW practices can make it work.

Time to accept the fact this person is headed for a sad awakening and intends to learn only frompersonal experience. I certainly would not want them to drop a lot of cash on this hobby when they likely will not be involved with it long at the rate they are going.

Unfortunately with this person these suggestions just give them more futile hope and keep them going. I would be afraid that if it failed they would just trying it again now that they have the equipment. This is the same person that had/may still have a YT in a 20g.

Time to sacrafice these poor little fish in the interest of the rest and hope they either learn the hard lessons and change their ways or just give up.

Hamsters are looking good though.

[tecwzrd]

I can certainly understand your frustration afilter

IMO cleaner wrasse and mandarins are really best left in the ocean. While few may have success most are doomed to failure when trying to keep either.

We can only advise to the ones willing to heed that advice and it still amazes me that even after numerous posts from many well intentioned/experienced people that returning it is the only solution one could still be so blatantly oblivious to the obvious.

Thanks for all the helpful advice you give to all of us

[afilter]

Yeah, if you think about it our hobby is kind of an oxymoran. We love the marine life so much that we want it in our home yet in the process of doing this so many die during collection, shipping and our mistakes.

I know I have killed more than my share in my 18+ years of fishkeeping. That is why sites like this are great where you can share and hopefully learn from others mistakes, so you do not have to make them youself.

Fully agree that some fish do not belong in the trade at all and others that can be maintained by an experienced hobbyist should probably come with a warning label.

In the end though the almighty profit margin wins out and as long as we keep purchasing the supliers will continue to provide them.

[pkremer]

I understand your frustration too afilter...some people want to have fish, but don't take the time to do any research into what the fish will need, or have an inflated viewpoint of their abilities. I have a young 13-year-old friend who switched his 2 gallon hamster tank into a fish tank and put a dwarf gourami in there...I try to say anything to discourage this and I'm "the bad guy."

Unfortunately, many young people do not understand the consequences of their actions, and must learn through personal experience...it's too bad the fish have to pay with their lives for this learning process. I am very glad that you continue to hold your ground and refuse to compromise here. RealFF, as much as he seems to enjoy his hobby, is only looking for "yes men," and I'm glad you refuse to give in. It's too bad we can't get his dad to read this post...he may be paying for these fish that RealFF has no intention of taking care of properly.

RealFF, you also need to realize that there is no point in asking for advice if you have no intention of listening to it. If you continue to ask for help, and then ignore the help provided, and then argue with people who probably have more experience keeping aquariums than you have been alive, then pretty soon noone is going to be willing to help. I certainly would not continue to waste my time answering the questions of someone who doesn't listen to me...and I'm sure that pretty soon noone else will either. Sorry to be harsh, but I think people are beginning to lose their patience here.

[TheRealFF]

Alright guys... i felt really bad that i got you all into this crazy crazy discussion... Im so stubborn yes... Im sorry.

Anyway, good news:

YT - returned weeks ago (u doubted me, afilter? y would i lie?)
mandarin - returned this afternoon
blue linkida - returned this afternoon

I was thinking alot last night before i went to sleep. I figured out i shouldnt try what the other experienced aquarists have tried with mandarins. I don't have the experience. Plus i figured i shouldn't let you all down after all ur efforts of helping me. So yea... i returned my precious fish (it was NOT easy to ask my dad to return the fish n star especially on a weekday!)

O yea about my dad 0.o he's always the one that want to buy unsuitable fishes for our tank lol. He wanted to buy a regal tank cuz it was in Nemo so my sister would be happy.

Anyway, i hope u guys can forgive me for my stubbornness. I guess i was born stubborn . Glad i followed ur advices. I wanted to return those corals that i have but this LFS doesn't allow full price returns so i would lose a few percent of the money i paid. I had these corals for about 2 months in the old 20G so i just moved them to the 30G. 2 of them... i bought after my 30G is cycled (sorry >_<)

About the 30G, i tested and saw both of the ammonia + nitrite spikes. Parameters right now are:

8.1 - 8.2 PH
0 NH3
0 NO2
4-5 NO#
0 PO4 (Yes! Phosguard works)
800 Ca (unusually high. i'll take care of it with skimming and WC)
I'll buy a salinity test this weekend if my dad let me

I was gonna wait for awhile before moving the fishes but the 20G's N02+NO3 were extremely high (highest on the scale). I think it was b/c i moved all the LR in there to the 30G. So the guy at LFS suggested me to move the fishes + inverts to the 30G early.

Here's are some pictures of my tank that i took today. Abit dirty but i'll get some more clean up members later on.



























Wish i took more picture when i had the mandarin

Oh well, hope you all enjoy my pictures. The mandarin and blue linkia are safe at the LFS (i hope) so no need to worry anymore. Thank you guys for your efforts. I'll try to take it slow from now on

[tecwzrd]

Thanks for heeding the advice and returning those two. That ca reading of 800 could be off depending on the test you use. What test did you use? Do you dose ca? As long as you slow way down you should be able to salvage this tank. You did more in two months then I’ve done in 9 months with my tank 8O

[afilter]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! I Knew we could eventually get through.

Sorry for insinuating you may not be telling the truth, but to this point you have not always been fully forthcoming with the details of your setup.

Still caution you to watch the levels, even though you transfered most of the contents of the 20g to the new tank you could still experience a spike.

As for the ich your call, If you do not choose to QT all your fish and leave 30g tank with no fish for 6-8 weeks you will always have chance that it is still there even if it is not currently visible.

PICs look good BTW. Corals should be fine as long as water quality stays up. Maybe do a bit extra on pwc for next month (5gal 1xweek) since it sounds like you were adding extra food (brine) for the mandarin.

Just remember you are just starting out. Hopefully you will have years to come to enjoy this hobby and do some of the more advanced things you want to. That is if you do not give it up for the Hamsters.

Also, I sent you a PM the other day that I see you have not opened. It is in the message section.

Good luck,

[Brenden]

No way 800 CA reading is correct. It would be snowing in your tank. Glad you took the advice. I can put the glycerine back up that I had got out for afilter.