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Old 07-29-2004, 01:18 PM   #1
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New fish and QT

Hi all,

I have been on the look out for a yellow tang for awhile. I want to get a nice healthy one and the ones at the LFS never seem to look nice.

There is a salt only fish store that has a large yellow tang for $29.99 that has been in the store for a month. I had seen it a few weeks ago and saw it again yesterday. His color did not look as nice yesterday but the store had just opened when I got there so maybe the lights had not been on long.

With a fish that has been in the LFS this long, is a QT still recommended? I have a 29 gal with some bad crabs and a puffer it. I have used this as a QT in the past and the puffer is waiting for me to finish the 72 gal tank for its move. I removed my royal gramma a few weeks ago that spent 4 weeks in the 29 gal but he really freaked out when I netted him out to move to the display. It is tough to rationalize the stress of removing them from the QT not hurting them.

Yellows seem to be fragile and don't want to lose another if I can help it. Any thoughts?
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:26 PM   #2
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If you can, pick up a 10 or 20 gallon, but definately qt! Many fish go though a fish stores tanks and unless he has been in a tank by himself isolated from the rest of the system, the risk is too high IMO
Not worth the price of bringing something into your main. Besides, Yellows are ich magnets.
Once again...IMO
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:53 PM   #3
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I agree and I have another 20 gal tank I could clean and use. I lost 1 yellow in QT due to ammonia problems and I lost another that went through the QT and then ended up dieing in the display - not sure what happened to him.

I think the 29 gal will work. It is established and has a seeded substrate. The gramma was in with the puffer so I think the tang would be ok too. When I removed the gramma, he put up a decent fight and after I acclimated him and added him to the display, he sunk to the bottom and laid there upside down. He did later come around and has been doing well ever since.

I want this fish to have every conceivable chance of living
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Old 07-29-2004, 02:08 PM   #4
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I'm sure you can do it. Take it from me, I have had more than one battle with ammonia in qt. The secret is frequent water changes with light feeding. In fact with a Yellow, you can leave a clip of nori in the tank. It does not foul the water like frozen or flake food.
Good luck to you!!
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Old 07-30-2004, 08:25 AM   #5
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quarryshark,

If I understand you, the nori decomposing doesn't affect water quality, specifically ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. That is interesting. I just assumed that was the cause of the ammonia rise in my QT. When I QT'd my Yellow Tang, I had to do more frequent water changes than with my perc, though I guess it might be related to the amount of waste each produced. I'm also having to do more frequent changes in the main after the addition of the Yellow. I guess I should look for another cause.

Thanks,

Jeff
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Old 07-30-2004, 12:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvennitti
quarryshark,

If I understand you, the nori decomposing doesn't affect water quality, specifically ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. That is interesting. I just assumed that was the cause of the ammonia rise in my QT. When I QT'd my Yellow Tang, I had to do more frequent water changes than with my perc, though I guess it might be related to the amount of waste each produced. I'm also having to do more frequent changes in the main after the addition of the Yellow. I guess I should look for another cause.

Thanks,

Jeff
I better clarify.
Well it doesn't degrade the water quality "as much" as frozen or flake, being that its not meat based,. I wouldn't leave it in 24/7, that may contribute. I just add the nori in the evening and pull it after a couple hours. I also place in in the AM and my wife removes it at lunchtime.
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Old 08-01-2004, 12:53 AM   #7
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Uhmmm...My opinion is that quarantine tanks can be just one step away from the toilet. I never have much success quarantining. I just seem to kill fish that way. Maybe, I have been lucky, but I always just buy fish that have been in the store for a few weeks, and then dump them in my display tank and hold my breath. So far...I have never crashed a tank this way, in 12 years of fishkeeping....except that one time But, still! One time is not that bad compared to what I kill in qt
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Old 08-01-2004, 12:57 AM   #8
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Also...wanted to add, that if you really think the fish is healthy, I think it is a safe risk. Every time you move a fish, or expose it to chemicals, you stress it. So..you are balancing the amount of stress that qt or dips pose on a potentially healthy fish , vs less stress with immediate acclimation on a healthy fish into the main tank
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Old 08-01-2004, 01:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Also...wanted to add, that if you really think the fish is healthy, I think it is a safe risk. Every time you move a fish, or expose it to chemicals, you stress it. So..you are balancing the amount of stress that qt or dips pose on a potentially healthy fish , vs less stress with immediate acclimation on a healthy fish into the main tank
Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. The point with the qt is to make sure your other fish are not infected with a parasite from the new fish. The new fish may show no signs of sickness, but may still carry a desiese.

If the new fish introduces a parasite to the main tank, and other fish, then you will have to remove all fish from the main to a qt, which is going to cause a whole lot of stress on all. The point of the qt is to watch the fish, in a water environment you are familiar with. Alot of the water at the lfs are circulated through numerous amounts of tanks, exposing fish to many parasites.

PLEASE, PLEASE QT! QT! QT!!

Take it from me, quarryshark, and thousands of others. Save yourself some heartache. HTH!
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Old 08-01-2004, 01:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishyMel
Uhmmm...My opinion is that quarantine tanks can be just one step away from the toilet. I never have much success quarantining. I just seem to kill fish that way. Maybe, I have been lucky, but I always just buy fish that have been in the store for a few weeks, and then dump them in my display tank and hold my breath. So far...I have never crashed a tank this way, in 12 years of fishkeeping....except that one time But, still! One time is not that bad compared to what I kill in qt
Yup, you have been lucky. Won't last forever.
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:35 AM   #11
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I guess it is always a balancing game when adding new fish. How valuable is keeping the new fish stress-free to you compared to the value of your existing occupants?

I need to couch my remark about not qting with a comment that I tend not to introduce ANYTHING new to my tank once it is up and running well and I am happy with what I have. I let years of attrition take its toll on my tank and when the population is so low that I have nothing good that would be sacrificed, I start over adding directly to the main tank. I am not a tinkerer. I am not constantly changing my tank occupants and moving them. Once I get the tank geared up and am happy with it, I don't change it, and my fish tend to live for years. If I lose a fish...I don't replace it, until so many other fish have also died that I need to start over...So..I am not the best one to advice about qt since I never use it. This method of aquarium-keeping I actually adopted after I crashed a beautiful tank with ich brought in by a tiny queen angel, I just had to have I did not qt her, and she brought down a tank with 500 dollars of beautiful perfect fish...So...I would definitely recommend qt in this situation when you have a perfect tank with lots of great fish, but I don't fall into this situation anymore cuz I don't add fish to established tanks after this disaster in 1994.

I still hold with my initial statement that qt in itself is always stressful....and a risk in itself. Many a nice fish, have not survived the qt. It just depends I suppose on how much you have to lose in your main tank. And..there are other diseases besides ich which new fish can certainly bring into your tank if you don't qt so not qting does put your main tank at risk.
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:43 AM   #12
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One final comment on qt and ich. I am not convinced, after years of fishkeeping, that ich can be obliterated completely with qt and treatment. I am of the opinion that ich is always present in the system, (either the fish or the water) and that it rears its ugly head when fish are stressed.(kind of like a cold sore/herpes virus in humans). I have seen fish have a bit of ich and go into qt for 6 weeks, respond well to copper and become ich free just to be moved to the maintank and break out with ich again due to the stress of the move. Most sw fish get a mild case of ich when they are stressed and moved. That is why for ich, I usually don't qt. Just ride a light case of it out with my uv sterilizer in full operation. If a fish succombs too badly and is jeapardizing the other fish, I will pull it out cuz all fish will succumb eventually I have learned if too much of it reproduces in the water.

If anyone has experience with always being able to prevent fish from breaking with ich when being relocated, I'd love to hear about it. I am fascinated and frightened about the seeming ubiquitous nature of this parasite, and am still learning about this ugly bug myself after 12 years of fishkeeping.
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:50 AM   #13
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One final comment on qt and ich. I am not convinced, after years of fishkeeping, that ich can be obliterated completely with qt and treatment. I am of the opinion that ich is always present in the system, (either the fish or the water) and that it rears its ugly head when fish are stressed.(kind of like a cold sore/herpes virus in humans). I have seen fish have a bit of ich and go into qt for 6 weeks, respond well to copper and become ich free just to be moved to the maintank and break out with ich again due to the stress of the move. Most sw fish get a mild case of ich when they are stressed and moved. That is why for ich, I usually don't qt. Just ride a light case of it out with my uv sterilizer in full operation. If a fish succombs too badly and is jeapardizing the other fish, I will pull it out cuz all fish will succumb eventually I have learned if too much of it reproduces in the water.

If anyone has experience with always being able to prevent fish from breaking with ich when being relocated, I'd love to hear about it. I am fascinated and frightened about the seeming ubiquitous nature of this parasite, and am still learning about this ugly bug myself after 12 years of fishkeeping.
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Old 08-01-2004, 11:28 AM   #14
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I have had a FO/saltwater tank up for 8 years in some capacity. My reef tank has been up almost a year. Before coming to AA.com, I never QT since I knew nothing of it. I have had dog and porcupine puffers most of my years which are prone to ich. I never had an ich outbreak. I figure I am really lucky!

I have QT'd every fish since I found AA.com but I don't have a true QT tank. My QT tank is a 29 gal that was seeded with my old substrate from my 8 yr old tank and I cycled some LR in it before I started using it. I feel safe with it but I have never had to medicate it either.

I think more people don't QT than do but just don't say it I still think it is a good idea.

That being said, I did not QT the tang. It had been at the LFS for a month and the guy there felt pretty strongly that he was healthy. A risk yes. He did eat at the LFS so that was a plus.

If I have to QT all the fish I have a 72 gal that I just set up with a seeded substrate. I will be ready.
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Old 08-01-2004, 12:04 PM   #15
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I believe in the QT method. It is less expensive to lose one fish in QT then it is to introduce parasites and disease to all of your livestock and risk losing everything. Always QT! Lando
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Old 08-03-2004, 07:36 AM   #16
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Another thought could be that the yellow tang at the LFS is probably swimming in copper mixed water too. I have sometimes thought that fish from the LFS that have been there for weeks and swimming with the corals and inverts (no copper on that side of the store) could be a safer bet to go directly into your main tank.

But... I'm a big subscriber to QTing - - all fish, regardless of which tanks they come from.
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Old 08-03-2004, 10:33 AM   #17
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IMO, failing to quarantine is about the most foolish thing that you can do.
Go to http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...odology_1.html to read about some methods of quarantine. This is a two part article and you can find part two in the same library.

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Old 08-03-2004, 11:10 AM   #18
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Nice article but it says to use a sponge filter or equivalent for filtration. IMO, if this is not seeded with bacteria, you will not be able to keep the ammonia down in the tank via water changes. I lost my first QT fish this way. Daily water changes and a standard HOB in a 10 gal tank. I had one fish in there and ammonia just kept rising. A larger QT might help with that though.
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Old 08-03-2004, 11:13 AM   #19
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I have the same size sponge on the PH of my display tank as I do on my QT. When I QT a fish, the sponges comes off of my PH in the display in goes on the one in QT, nicely seeded with bacteria. Doesn't do much for the nitrates in QT though.
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Old 08-03-2004, 11:21 AM   #20
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Agreed. I usually keep a filter pad in my sump. The article here on AA mentions it but the article linked aboave did not. It very much helps.

Just shows that AA is the best
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