nitrates what to do

[elke]

90g 440w vho 180lbs LR 40lbs agronite 1200 mag drive in sump 250 mag drive in tank culerpa growing in sump
fish: 1 snowflake eel, 1 enginer goby, 2 pajama cardinals, 1 yellow tang, 1 blue hippo tang, 1 star & stripes puffer, 1 purple firefish, 1 black percula clown, 1 true percula clown, 1 osciliris clown, 1 cleanr shrimp, 1 queen conch, 1 florida fighting conch, 2 green chromis, 2 yellow tail damsels, 1 cucumber,
yes alot of fish but all are fine but nitrates are over 160ppm water changes wont bring them down could it be my substrate not deep enough? or something else? Please help thanx

[mjvincent]

Too many fish! The eel and the puffer are both going contribute alot to the nitrate levels, and they might also end up eating some of the other fish. I don't think you are going to reduce the nitrates until you get rid of some of those fish. If you don't move them you will start to lose them because of nitrate poisoning (slow death). The cucumber will be the first to die. Please consider removing some of these animals soon.

[gooyferret]

Yes you have alot of fish and others in that tank for its size. Make sure before you purchase fish on what they eat and what size they will grow to. Removal of some will be necessary to lower nitrates. The first ones to be effected will most likely be your invertabrates, they are very sensitive to nitrates. I would recommend doing a 20% water change ASAP. HTH

[RLG2182]

Take the fish back to the store! 8O

They will die unless the nitrates go down, and until your system can handle that much nitrate, the levels will never go down. Start off slow... a 90 can be TINY if you pack that many fish in there! (regardless... that's more than a fully stocked tank for a mature aquarium). How long has the tank been running? Let us know.

[ZoozFishMaster]

Excuse my ignorance...but according to the research that I have conducted, scientists believe both fresh and saltwater fish are insensitive to nitrate (from what it seems). I do not believe nitrates at 160 ppm (although this is extremely high) are going to kill any of his fish, let alone a puffer, eel, or clownfish.

Of course, invertebrates such as corals, shrimp, starfish, snails, etc are sensitive to nitrates. The snails in his tank are probably not exactly in paradise.

I will however admit that high nitrates can possibly lead to viral infections, especially in "less nitrate tolerant" fish. But I cannot believe that nitrates are going to kill fish. Maybe someone can clear this up for me.

[kukki]

from what i understand, and have read high trates effect the red blood cells of fish and add to stress leading to diseases... id say.. think if of it as fish aids lol.. it might not be what kills them but its what can help lead to a weakened immune system and disease / death

[ZoozFishMaster]

I can definately agree with you that high nitrates may increase a fish's susceptibility to disease (both viral and bacterial) and may inhibit the abilitiy of the fish's red blood cells to carry oxygen, however I do not believe anyone can say nitrates are certainly going to kill fish.

The saltwater fish system of a LFS in my area has nitrate concentrations near 150 ppm (which is quite high but you must consider the amount of fish being housed, the amount of food going into the system, and probably the lack of frequent large water changes). However, the store has a few large display tanks connected to the system which have been housing triggers, sharks, groupers, etc for over 5 years. These fish have not died and from what it seems are showing no signs of any water quality issues.

It just seemed like a few members almost attacked "Elke" insisting that he/she remove the fish immediately before they die. Without a doubt, the inverts are probably not in the best of shape and I do believe the tank was way too crowded. But I do not believe anyone can affirm that high nitrates are definately going to kill fish. JMHO. Maybe someone with a little more expertise than myself can chime in.

[peterac]

Aren't there biological methods of removing nitrates? Such as--setting up a refugium with macroalgae....

Nobody seems to have suggested that. Everyone said to remove fish.

Just curious.

Pete R.

[mjvincent]

No attacks, just concerned about a person's hobby and animals. I disagree with your statement that Nitrates don't kill fish. Please read the following from another website. I think even you would concede that Nitrates are not good for the fish and especially not the invert.

Dr. Robert Fenner, author of "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists", also disagrees with you regarding nitrates at 160 ppm. He calls it deadly. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/no3probfaq61.htm

While not as poisonous, nitrates are an overall indicator of the health of the tank. For a fish only tank I wouldn't want nitrates over 30-40ppm. But with that invert in the tank anything over 10 is detrimental to the overall health of the inhabitants.

[gilraen]

I agree with mjvincent, everything I've read says nitrates affect fish and shoud be kept between 10-20ppm.

[Serge]

Another thing to consider: fish, invertebrate, etc..., live, breath, eat, pee and poop in that water. Eeww... How can it be healthy for live creatures to live in a high nitrate environment. Partial water changes are a must, IMO and from most other aquarists, to ensure a healthy tank and livestock. My $0.02 on this.

8)

[ZoozFishMaster]

I am 100% with you guys in that maintaining low nitrate levels is necessary in maintaining optimal health for fish and inverts. I was in no way suggesting 160 ppm nitrate is acceptable, desirable, or in the best interest of any fish or invert (all 3 of my reef tanks are kept between 0-3 ppm nitrate through macroalgae refugiums).

I was just questioning whether anyone can be sure that excessive nitrates are going to definately kill fish. To be quite honest with you, I don't think the triggers, groupers, and lionfish in the display tanks at the LFS (previously mentioned) care whether the nitrates are 0 ppm or 150 ppm, as long as they are being fed. But I'll also admit that triggers, groupers, and lions are very hardy fish. JMHO Thank you for your inputs.

[Serge]

Makes for an interesting debate.

8)

[Phyl]

He already has a sump with macro algae in it. He already has 2#/g of LR, already has lots of sand. Those are the things that most people would advise for lowering nitrates. Some of the things (apart from the obvious) would be a bigger skimmer (one for about 2x the gallons of his tank, at least), a denitrification chamber, mangroves...

The problem with the fish that you have (apart from the fact that they are likely to make very expensive meals out of your inverts) is that you have two very messy, carnivorous fish. A messy fish is going to pollute the water, a carnivore's diet is harder to breakdown in the tank than an herbivore. Those two things are going to contribute to water quality problems. The mag 12 is probably only pushing about 1000gph into your tank plus the 250 gives you 1250. You might benefit from some additional flow, a larger fuge with a DSB in it...

Good luck finding an answer that works best for you.

And shame on the lot of us! Welcome to AA! Sorry that your first adventure on the board turned into a debate. Stick around. I'm sure you'll find this a great source of friendship and information!

[lando]

elke, Welcome to AquariumAdvice.com!!!
I think it goes woithout saying that we should all strive to keep water parameters as good as possible. That includes nitrates. It may not have an immediate effect on fish but think of it as living in a city breathing smog for your entire life. Long-term effects can be harmful.
As mentioned...Your high NO3 is due to your stocking load and fish choices. I am sure feeding is also a contributing factor. What to do...Begin thining your livestock. 15% water changes using a high quality RO/DI water every three or four days until levels start to come down. What are you using for a substrate?

[elke]

well ty all for the info as for my mag 1200 and 250 i'm pushing 1400 in my tank not to get you wrong about what you thought i was but ty for helping me with advice but i found the prob did 2 50% water changes brought down to 40ppm now 15% a week cutting it lower and all my creatures are more happy.. woohooo lol. but everything is a learning curve now i have learned the imporantce of water changes its all about changeing that water not like my ciclid tank where i can sit back and watch them swim my new 90 salt tank is something i have to be part of ty again for all the help........

[Phyl]

Great that your nitrates are now down to a manageable level. Your fish must be so happy As for the mag 12 pushing 1200gph into your tank... unless pump is at tank level, zero head with no elbows or Ts, then it is pushing closer to 1000.

Mag Drive #12 Flow (gph)
1200 (0ft)
1150 (2ft)
1100 (4ft)
910 (6ft)
700 (8ft)
600 (10ft)
15' (max) 110 (watts)

Thanks for the update. It is good to see what can be done with a little diligence.