[noob] I want a salty tank [/noob]

[jonjoyner83]

For the record, I have never owned a tank, PERIOD.

I have a 3 year old daughter. She loves animals as any 3 year old does. I decided to get her a 10gal freshwater tank this past weekend. She loves and so do I. Now I have an itch to delve in salt water tanks. I have a client I do consulting for who owns a tank with a puffer, clown, and eel and it just amazes me that you can own these creatures who live miles away in nature. Regardless, I have yet to have found a good resource for beginners like me. I don't want to go broke if I can't maintain these fish, so my budget is around $150 to start. I would like to keep it small, such as a 10/20Gal. I bought my daughter's tank from Wally and noticed the tank is "said" compatible with salt water. Can you folks give me some guidance? Be gentle...I don't want the uberaquarium just yet...I just would like to have a saltwater tank with fish in it that my daughter can enjoy without having to go to the coast for it.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Welcome to AA.

First off, you may or may not get everything you need with $150, although it won't be too far from that. As for the tank, I'd go for a 20 gallon if possible. Bigger, the better. But, aside from that a smaller tank needs daily attention in the form of topping off the evaporation (with freshwater) and water changes preferably weekly or biweekly. The tank must also "cycle" first before you can add fish. Take a gander through the articles on this site, which you can find a link to at the top of the page.

I'd browse through www.liveaquaria.com and check out their nanofish section. With fish only, you don't need upgraded lighting. Other things you will need:

A heater
Salt
Refractometer/Hydrometer
Powerhead or two
Liverock (the more the better)

Hmm, I'm drawing a blank and that's all I can think of for now.

 

[jonjoyner83]

Sorry for the noobness...can you explain the uses of those things you listed? Is Petsmart or Petco a decent place to start shopping?

Welcome to AA.

First off, you may or may not get everything you need with $150, although it won't be too far from that. As for the tank, I'd go for a 20 gallon if possible. Bigger, the better. But, aside from that a smaller tank needs daily attention in the form of topping off the evaporation (with freshwater) and water changes preferably weekly or biweekly. The tank must also "cycle" first before you can add fish. Take a gander through the articles on this site, which you can find a link to at the top of the page.

I'd browse through www.liveaquaria.com and check out their nanofish section. With fish only, you don't need upgraded lighting. Other things you will need:

A heater
Salt
Refractometer/Hydrometer
Powerhead or two
Liverock (the more the better)

Hmm, I'm drawing a blank and that's all I can think of for now.

 

[loyalrogue]

I don't think you'll be able to start a 10 gal saltwater tank within your budget.
You won't be able to afford the lights needed for most corals but you could have a nice little FOWLR tank if you could just about double your budget.
(just hold your mouse over any underlined acronyms like FOWLR to see what they stand for)

Here's a list off the top of my head for a basic/minimal 10 gal setup (I may have forgotten one or two things which I'm sure a more experienced reefer will chime in with):

A 10 gal tank with hood - $20.
Stand - $50
20lbs sand - $20 - (for filtration)
15lbs live rock rubble - $60 - (also for filtration)
Saltwater - $5
Aquaclear filter - $30 - (for water movement instead of powerheads and also additional filtration)
Heater - $15 - (incase you live somewhere the temp is below 74°)
Thermometer - $4 - (gotta know the temp to adjust the heater)
Macro algae - $10 - (removes excess nutrients and reduces bad algae growth)
SW test kit - $25 - (must test regularly)

Example/suggested livestock (after initial 2-3 week cycling):

Snails and crabs - $15 - (clean up crew for algae and rotting food)
Cleaner shrimp - $15 - (too cool, colorful, and friendly. every tank should have one)
Tank raised clown - $15 - (very hardy, active, and friendly. good starter fish)
Small goby - $16 - (good docile addition to any tank. helps sift sand keeping it white looking)
Food - $5

You will also need to buy RO/DI fresh water for ongoing top-offs from evaporation and 1-2 gal of saltwater weekly for PWC.

As you can see, it all adds up pretty quickly, and I'm sure there's a few other expenses I forgot.
Of course, if you're willing to make due without a stand and one of the critters you could shave a little of the total.

If you're really lucky, you might be able to find a great bargain on an already established SW tank from the classifieds in your local area.
I was able to find a 125gal SW tank with everything included for $300 just by being patient and checking the classifieds twice a week for a couple of months... of course, in the 6 mos. since then I've easily managed to dump an additional $3000 into it.


Good luck.


**EDIT**
I see Devilish beat me to it... I'm too slow a typer... :?
Oh well, gives me a chance to add the reasons you asked for... unless she beats me to that too...
I also have to agree with her that a 20gal would be a better starting choice, but that means a little more $$$ for LS and LR.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Lol, aww loyalrouge. You beat me to the second part.

I double post all the time, usually with Melosu or Roka, it happens.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

FWIW, craigslist.com ALWAYS has people selling fish tanks. Look there. You can save money by telling people at work/clubs/church etc, that you are starting a fish tank and if anyone has one in the garage or attic, you will be happy to take it off their hands. Offer a small amount of money, but most of the time, people are glad just to get rid of them. And often, they will pass off equipment as well.

for smaller tanks, you can probably get away without a stand if you have a sturdy table with a top large enough that the entire tanks bottom is within the outside of the table top.

Many grocery stores sell RO/DI water in machines. And most aquarium stores (not petco or petsmart, but local fish stores) also sell RO/DI water for about $.25 per gallon. Some also sell pre-mixed saltwater for around $1.00 per gallon

RO/DI water is important. It is pure water, without any nasty stuff in it you can get from the tap. It is highly filtered...moreso than the brita water you can get with a filter pitcher. This is really important. Even the tiniest amount of copper (from pipes), nitrates, ammonia, chlorine, chlorimine (added by the water company to help kill bacteria in the water), bacteria, silicates, or phosphates will hurt your saltwater tank. Saltwater tanks are far more fragile and less forgiving than freshwater. So this is really important. Invertibrates like snails, shrimp, corals, anemones, etc. are extremely sensitive to things like this, and algae will grow like wildfire if you have silicates, phosphates or nitrates.

If you avoid corals, you can get away with MUCH cheaper lighting. But if you want corals or anmeones, you are going to be spending some bucks. Consider going Fish only with live rock (FOWLR) if you can't afford more intense, quality lighting

Try not to skimp on the equipment you put into your tank. Getting a freebee tank is good, but a freebee heater/filter/etc might not be so good. Filters can be cleaned and restored, but i suggest you find someone to help you if you haven't done it before.

There are more things, just too tired to think of them right now.

 

[roka64]

WELCOME TO AA!!!

Please do not cycle your tank with live animals.

There is a bunch of great advice there. You can start with the basics. I would go with at least a 20G tank. Get some salt, ph, heater. Once you have these, you can start your cycle (fishless, I hope) and save up your money for other things, like decent lighting, maybe an HOB filter, refractometer. I like to buy my equipment online. I have found it tends to be a lot cheaper than at my LFS. I like to get most of my stuff from drsfosterandsmith.com.
As for saving money on LR, you could buy base (dead rock, that will become live). I bought mine from marcorocks.com, you can mix this with some LR and it save you on costs.

 

[jonjoyner83]

I spec'd the nano fishes...They seem to be a good bet. I think I will be sticking with this hobby, but I don't want to jump right into 70Ga tanks just yet.

What is the advantage to having coral? Looks nice? Any advantage to the fish other than shelter?

How do protein skimmers work? What makes LR live? Are there certain fish I should not mix? What is the deal with having to "mate" clowns together at the same time?

I am expecting Obi Wan to come around the corner and say, "These are not the fish you are looking for..." and that would be a sign to avoid this idea entirely.

 

[roka64]

What is the advantage to having coral? Looks nice? Any advantage to the fish other than shelter?

Corals http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.cfm?siteid=22&pCatId=597 are living animals. Some do offer fish and other's shelter/protection. Ever touch a fire coral?
Are you asking about the dead branching coral, or are you talking about crushed coral?

How do protein skimmers work?

I don't have one, but I believe they skim out the funk in the water, like fish waste.

What makes LR live?

LR to us, generally means it is teeming with nitrifying bacteria, that converts ammonia to nitrItes and into nitrAtes. The living critters are just a bonus.

Are there certain fish I should not mix?

Yes, but the list is so long we could go on for a lonnnnnng time.

What is the deal with having to "mate" clowns together at the same time?

It is not mating them it is introducing the same species at the same time, if they are a mater pair. This means one is female (the bigger of the two) and one is the male. If they are mated, that changes of agression is smaller than if they weren't mated.
Basically, take a look at liveaquaria.com, see what the fish requirements (like tank size and dietary needs and such), find some that you might like, do a little research and post a list, and you will get plenty of knowledge and personal experiences.

 

[phishead]

I started in a very similar way. I upgraed my FW 10 gal. to a 55 and figured what the heck! why not try to run the 10 gal saltwater. THe ten gallon lasted about 2 weeks when I upgraded to a 75.

Back then I started with the "Saltwater is for dummies book" which would answer a lot of your questions, but I didn't know about this site then. THere is a lot more experience and you will get a lot more feedback on the internet then you will ever find in a book. Stick with us and we'll get you there!!!!

Anyway, I agree, try craigslist lots of people will give you tank stands and lights for the price of coming to pick it up. Where do you live? I have that 10 gal, lights hood stand.... and even that same 75 that I would let go for a good price!! QT and show tank, Problem Solved!!!

I upgraded to a 90 this summer! It's addictive!!

And don't buy stuff at petsmart and petco if you are on a budget! If you really need to go to there websites because the stuff is half the price at petco.com!! use Fosters and Smith and visit the AA sponsors! Nothing wrong with supporting your LFS either. THey are always there when you need them!!

Good Luck, Happy reading!!!

 

[loyalrogue]

Just to expand a little on Roka's answers...

What is the advantage to having coral? Looks nice? Any advantage to the fish other than shelter?

I'm sure you're making reference to our comments about lighting and corals.
The answer is that the corals are just other cool looking animals that you can keep in a SW tank that you can't have in a FW tank.
Unfortunately most corals require special high-intensity lighting which is also very expensive.
You can still have a fancinating SW tank without corals, but if you get started eventually you'll want them... oh yes... you will.

How do protein skimmers work?

They are another form of filtration which collects dissolved organics from the water by capturing them in a fine bubble foam which is skimmed off from the tank.
Just like Roka, I don't have them on my tanks, and I rely on water changes to help remove them.
For certain corals and critters that require super pristine water quality they might be a necessity, otherwise you should be fine with regular partial water changes.

What makes LR live?

Like Roka said, the "live" part is the live bacteria cultures that grow on the rock and that help to filter the water.
Just about any kind of rock can become LR.
A lot of us will use nice looking pieces of ordinary, everyday dry rocks "base rock" in combination with some pieces of already established LR in our tanks to let the bacteria spread to, or "seed" the ordinary rocks turning them into LR.

Are there certain fish I should not mix?

Most certainly!
Especially predators and their prey.


Sometimes the salesperson at the LFS may not give you the best advice so I would always hit the internet for more info (especially right here first) before making any purchases.

What is the deal with having to "mate" clowns together at the same time?

Nothing says that you absolutely have to put them together at the same time, but as a general rule it's always better to add fish at the same time before they establish a territory if any of them are territorial in nature.

I am expecting Obi Wan to come around the corner and say, "These are not the fish you are looking for..." and that would be a sign to avoid this idea entirely.

"Luke,... I am your aquarium. Come to the salt side."


Sorry, I couldn't resist