Origins of our anaerobic bacteria?

[Mebbid]

I've heard it stated many times that the denitrifying bacteria is anaerobic in nature and will die when exposed to air. It's pretty much accepted as fact within the community (or at least I've never heard contraindications to it) However, I was wondering about its origins if this is true.

If it does indeed die when exposed to air that would make it an obligate anaerobic bacteria. The only problem I have with this is that I see no method of transport for this bacteria to get into out live rock.

Instead, I see it as needing to be either a facultative anaerobic or aerotolerant bacteria instead. This would account for its ability to move into our live rock and sand through oxygenated areas as well as survive in the anaerobic recesses inside our live rock. The only problem I see with this is that it would mean that the tank crashes from a DSB aren't from bacterial die off but instead is just gunk and detritus that collects in the sand beds after months to years of not being disturbed. It would also mean that it's not really a big deal to disturb them if they are cleaned regularly.

I haven't seen any specific information on the type or name of bacteria that performs out denitrifying so I thought I would pose the question on the forum and see if anyone has any thoughts.

 

[Sniperhank]

I'm no scientific expert my any means...very far from it. I couldn't tell you much about the bacteria involved in the nitrification cycle either. But what I do believe, which you mentioned, is that the DSB crashes and 'old tank syndrome' mystery crashes is simply from build up of all that gunk built up over years.

 

[Andy Sager]

This might help

Nitrifying Bacteria Facts

 

[Andy Sager]

Sorry, read your post too fast. Didn't catch you were talking about denitrifying bacteria. From what I can surmize, both nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria are found on, in, near or around anything that is dead, alive and/or wet which is how it gets into our aquariums. I've read references to them being in the air, the water table and public water sources but, oddly, not found in water after it's gone through an RO filter due to it's main food source being depleted by the filter.
This may be a good question to pose to the manufacturers of fritz in the article I posted the link to.

 

[Ingy]

Anaerobic bacteria are found in the digestive tract of all complex organisms. Some are expelled in the waste as well. A cocktail shrimp that has not been deveined will have some. Brittlestar waste and snail waste will have some. Lots of sources.


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[Gregcoyote]

http://www.selba.org/EngTaster/Ecological/Water/Denitrification.html


There are far more anaerobic and aerobic bacteria in us than there are human cells.


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[jeffaquarius]

From what I understand about these 2 types of bacteria, aerobic needs oxygen while anaerobic does not need it to survive. I believe the bb in our tank are mostly aerobic. They die in rocks that are dry since the carbon dioxide or dissolved oxygen they use is in the water. That's the reason why you need to keep the LR wet when transporting. The denitrification process works well in the Monaco system tank.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/aafeature

Here is an excerpt.

"The system Jaubert uses is not magic, though its lack of devices might lead one to wonder how it could possibly be so simple. It relies on the ability of bacteria within the gravel to break down nitrogenous waste by aerobic nitrification and anaerobic denitrification. The process of nitrification is well known to aquarists, and is an important part of all successful aquariums. Bacteria convert ammonium waste produced by fishes into nitrite, and then nitrate. In the denitrification process the nitrate is broken down into nitrous oxide and nitrogen gas. These processes have been employed for many years in various filter devices for aquariums. In Jaubert's system, both nitrification and denitrification occur within a thick layer of gravel suspended over and in contact with a "void space" of water on the bottom of the aquarium."

.

 

[Ingy]

Further to all that there are 2 radically different types of nitrogen. Organic nitrogen is what we have in our systems. Ammonia nitrogen is converted to nitrate. Nitrate is a fertilizer that promotes plant growth. And around that nitrogen cycle it goes.
UNLESS it becomes denitrified by something like anaerobic bacteria. Then inorganic nitrogen is the result. This will not feed plant growth. Instead it becomes the inert 78% of our atmosphere.


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[Mebbid]

Denitrification


There are far more anaerobic and aerobic bacteria in us than there are human cells.


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That's a great find. Thanks Greg. That pretty much explains exactly what I was thinking

Further to all that there are 2 radically different types of nitrogen. Organic nitrogen is what we have in our systems. Ammonia nitrogen is converted to nitrate. Nitrate is a fertilizer that promotes plant growth. And around that nitrogen cycle it goes.
UNLESS it becomes denitrified by something like anaerobic bacteria. Then inorganic nitrogen is the result. This will not feed plant growth. Instead it becomes the inert 78% of our atmosphere.


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The fun thing is when cyanobacteria converts the nitrogen gas back into ammonia... Around and Around it goes...

 

[jeffaquarius]

The question is "Will too much oxygen in the tank hinders the denitrification process?"

 

[Mebbid]

The question is "Will too much oxygen in the tank hinders the denitrification process?"

That is a good question. I imagine it would have to but im sure the effects would be fairly small. Theres a fairly narrow range of acceptable oxygen levels in our tanks.

 

[jeffaquarius]

We'll how can you make aerobics bacteria happy if the oxygen level in your tank is low?

 

[jeffaquarius]

Anaerobic bacteria must be found underneath your DSB where oxygen is scarce.

 

[jeffaquarius]

Now I'm beginning to understand why a thicker substrate is more desirable.

 

[Ingy]

Now I'm beginning to understand why a thicker substrate is more desirable.

Yes, if you want to rely/utilize the denitrification process in nitrate removal. Or you can rely on the simple fertilizer/plant growth method where little bits of algae grow and are eaten by herbivore invertebrates and fish and the poop is skimmed out. Or algae scrubbers and macro algaes are manually removed.

Then there is no risk of sulphates entering the denitrification process and creating deadly H2S gas.

 

[Gregcoyote]

I agree, algae removal using a ATS is far safer than a deep sand bed.


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