Sump.

[SeriousDude5]

Hello, I am in the process of setting up a new tank 30 gallons, and I've been considering adding a sump. Where I could house a refugium, liverock, as well as keep most of my equipment. And to add water volume.

My question is how do you go about setting it up? My old 65 gallon tank had a sump with two bulkheads drilled into the glass. . . it was so freaking loud it was rediculous. I'm not sure what went wrong, but I want to know if its possible to silience the beast, or if theres a way to do it with no drilling.

P.S. Is there anyone near the CT region who can perhaps help me out with this part? I would like this tank to go together perfectly. Let me know!

P.S.S. I'm sure this questions been posted before, but the search button up top wasn't working so I decided just to start it. If you have a link to another thread please share.

 

[neilanh]

There are hang-on back overflows that will work the same as a drilled tank. Also, there's the possibility of actually drilling your tank as well if you wish to go that route.

 

[copi]

if theres a way to do it with no drilling.

Here is an example of an overflow for doing it without drilling:

Reef Aquarium Filtration: Eshopps Overflow Boxes

 

[Ziggy953]

Overflow boxes are not 100% reliable they can and will fail. Drilling or internal overflows is a far better option for getting water to a sump. The reason your 65 was so loud was because it was sucking air into the drain line along with the water and you go that nice "flushed toilet" sound. The easy way to get rid of that is to put a "T" on the end of your drain line (in the sump) one end of the "T" pointing up and the other pointing down towards the water. Extend both with PVC, the end going to the water, extend it below the surface water of your sump. This will allow the air to get out and the water to flow silently. Unless you build a durso style standpipe you will get the gurgling sound.

Here is what I mean with "T" I have no noise at all and no bubbling.

 

[copi]

Overflow boxes are not 100% reliable they can and will fail.

I agree that the "S" type are at greater risk of failure as the syphon may not / does not automatically restart.

Please describe how the "U" type is unreliable. The physical set-up seems to be identical to a drilled tank -- U or J-shaped tube that automatically begins the syphon, even if broken. I have only ever had drilled tanks, however I was under the impression that this type of box was reliable.

Thanks.

 

[Ziggy953]

Any overflow box that has to pull water up and over the edge of a tank can fail. I personally trust only drilled. There is no way for them to fail.

Now the CPR style overflow has a better reputation then the ones that use the "U" Tube. Either way they can fail.

 

[copi]

Any overflow box that has to pull water up and over the edge of a tank can fail. I personally trust only drilled. There is no way for them to fail.

Now the CPR style overflow has a better reputation then the ones that use the "U" Tube. Either way they can fail.

I am not trying to be argumentitive, only to understand...

I have always heard that the CPR style ("S") are at greater risk, and require a small pump to function. Unfortunately I do not have those sources in front of me and so cannot quote them.

As I look at my drilled tank I see a tube that is the same shape as the "U" type overflow. Here is my understanding of how each works: In both cases, the tank level rises as the return pump delivers water to the tank. At a certain level, water flows through the plastic "teeth"(?), either into the box or into the built-in overflow area. Both the overflow and the drilled tank deliver water to the sump via a u-shaped tube that rises above the water level and then below it again.

So I do not see the difference. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just asking if you can help me understand at what point (specifically) the overflow might fail while the drilled version would not.

I would like to be able to explain this to others and supply full resoning.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Ziggy953]

Drilled tank - With a drilled tank the hole is either at the bottom of the tank inside the overflow area or in the back of the tank inside the overflow area. Either way the hole is going to be below the water line in the tank. The pipe with the "U" at the top is the standpipe. This determines the level of water in the overflow. When the return pump is on water flows up and over the teeth in the overflow but it also flows in from slits in the middle and bottom of the overflow. When the water level reaches the "U" water flows into the standpipe and down into the sump. The "U" is there to keep the intake below the surface of the water and eliminate the gurgle sound.

Overflow boxes that are on non-drilled tanks can fail. The siphon can be broken from air bing trapped in the "U" tubes. The overflow box works on the similar to the other but water has to flow up and over the edge of the tank.

A drilled tank isn't going to fail because it doesn't work on a siphon.

 

[SeriousDude5]

K looks like I will go for the drilled system, since it is going to be at my parents house and I am in college, I can't afford the posibilty of a problem, but I will be able to come home once a week to clean the tank ect, while they dose it. Is there a good site to go to to learn how to set up the plumbing properly? Let me know thank you.

Also I was thinking of a 30g sump (same as the tank) I figure this would provide ample room for algea, and extra live rock. This isn't a bad thing correct? Becuase then it will up my water volume to 60 gallons actualy more like 50 w/ live rock / sand.

 

[cmor1701d]

Check out Melev's Reef - Sumps & Fuge's

 

[ccCapt]

I am not trying to be argumentitive, only to understand...

There is nothing better than asking questions if you don't fully understand something.

I tend to agree with you on the U-tube overflow as being more reliable than the CPR style which also relies on a lift pump to work properly. I used a U-tube over flow for close to 20 years and it never failed once. Not saying it can't fail, but IMO they are very reliable.
The siphon in the U would only be broken if air accumulated there...and that would probably be caused by using a pump thats too weak. What makes a predrilled overflow so much better is there isn't actually a siphon that needs to be kept. Water is pushed down the overflow pipe.

Ziggy, your overflow is definitely different than mine. You say water can enter the overflow from the slots near the middle and bottom? That's pretty scarey. You can't change a bulkhead without draining your tank? If by some chance a bulkhead started to leak, it can drain your entire tank?
My overflow has those slots, but it's only a cover than can be removed. The theory behind that is water will be drawn up behind the cover and into the overflow. Dunno if it actually does that, but I can take out my bulkheads and nothing will drain out of the tank...only the water inside the overflow itself would need to be drained.

 

[Ziggy953]

My tank is not drilled I use an overflow box. There are no bulkheads in my tank. I was talking about the slits in a standard AGA tank...and they work exactly like you described. The point is to pull water from more then one zone in the tank.

 

[fijiwigi]

since we are on the topic. I have an overflow box that flows into my sump.
The overflow box makes a lot of noise when the water flows into the pipe connected to the drain of the overflow box. The water flowing into the sump is silent. I am wondering if there is a way to quite the water flowing into the box. It is noisy. Is there a way to connect the u-tube directly to the down pipe so there is no air at all??

 

[ccCapt]

OK...got ya. I thought you meant those slots go right thru to the other side of the overflow. I really don't think they draw up much water, if any. It needs some kind of "pull" to draw the water up, but it looks like a good concept...lol. Regardless, the predrilled tank are undoubtly the way to go.

 

[ccCapt]

since we are on the topic. I have an overflow box that flows into my sump.
The overflow box makes a lot of noise when the water flows into the pipe connected to the drain of the overflow box. The water flowing into the sump is silent. I am wondering if there is a way to quite the water flowing into the box. It is noisy. Is there a way to connect the u-tube directly to the down pipe so there is no air at all??

A picture speaks 1000 words.

 

[austinsdad]

Overflow (drilled) with the Durso standpipe gets my vote.

 

[Ziggy953]

If you put an 90 elbow on your drain in the overflow box it will quieten it down some. The only way for it to be silent is to do like they do with the durso standpipe and have the drain draw water from below the surface.

 

[fijiwigi]

The above photo looks like ccapt just added a plastic cup in the overflow box with a hole cut out for some tubing. I would assume the tubing is for air to help feed gravity and the tubing draws air quietly. And I would assume the cup helps to muffle some noise. How do you keep from the cup moving around too much and tipping over?/

I would also assume that a 90degree elbow would minimize the swirling flushing sound because there would be less gravity.

I still don't understand what a Durso standpipe is.

 

[roka64]

CCC did a DIY durso standpipe and it looks like he put some foam on the left side to keep it from moving. At least that is my take.

 

[ccCapt]

Yup, just a plastic cup with an airline. That's a piece of eggcrate on the left side to keep the cup in place. The cup is sort of wedged between the front, back and one side. It is dead silent and costs virtually nothing.

If you use a pvc 90, actually 2 of them to make a U shape, you will need to drill a hole in the top to let air in too....but it may not fit inside the overflow box.