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Old 01-22-2005, 07:30 PM   #1
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Sump Drawing - fill in gaps?

Ok here is what I have so far. I have a few questions before I build though and I dont have the refugium glass tank yet - I'm going to buy it tonight. I have about 24" of room max next to the tub so I will probably have to get the 10g tank.

1) Where should I place the cutoff ball valves in this config for future maintenance/ease of operation?
2) I am getting the AquaC Urchin Pro with the Mag3 pump.. where does it tie in and how? I would like to keep it in the sump area for neatness of the fuge.
3) Should I put lr rubble in bottom of sump or in the left compartment of the fuge?
4) How should I connect the tank and tub? I will cut the tub if I have to.
5) Can I run a MJ1200 for the return or is this too big/small?
6) Is this generally an efficient setup? Should I change anything in the layout for safety etc?
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Old 01-22-2005, 07:41 PM   #2
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MJ1200 seems a little small for a return pump... what head height do you have? For a 75, I would recommend a Mag 5 or 7... depending how big your intake hose is. (correct me if a refugium setup is different).

Put the Urchin in a spot in your sump where the water level will remail constant. This will maximize efficiency and will cause less headaches down the road. I believe Aqua C recommends any water height up to 9 inches. Just make sure the pump never goes without water, and that the skimmer is put before your baffles leading to return pump (set up a micro-bubble trap).

LR should always be underneath water. Can go anywhere really, maybe keep it in the tub so that it's away from the pumps just in case debris falls off a pebble & gets stuck in the pump impeller.

Blind leading the blind... I love it.

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Old 01-23-2005, 01:21 AM   #3
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Send Sumphead a PM. He is our resident expert regarding sump designs.

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Old 01-23-2005, 12:01 PM   #4
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Will do
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:39 PM   #5
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The MJ1200 is way to small for that setup. The amount of water comming out of the powerhead at that headheight will be like 40-50GPH. You should shoot for 700-1000GPH thru the sump. I would also invest in some true unions before the pumps and just below the tank. This will allow you to remove the pump if you need to repair/replace it as well as disconnect the plumbing from the tank when you need to move it. Put ballvalves on the take side of the true unions comming from the tank. Put the ball valve on the side opposite the pump. THis way you can cut the water off and then seperate the plumbing at the union.
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Old 01-23-2005, 03:24 PM   #6
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V2 drawing attached....let me know if this is what you were talking about.
OK, I will go with a mag5 or 7 for return instead. Is the item called a "true union" at the hardware store? I am about to ride to Home Depot and will get 10' of the airline tubing, some metal adjustable clamps to secure them to PVC, a few ball valves, some PVC cement, PVC primer, etc. and two true unions.

Another thing - the oceanic rr kit came with the ribbed 3/4 bulkead insert for the return and a 1" same for the drain (hard plastic ribbed pieces) Do most people run PVC glued to these or airline tubing? How do I connect to these things? Do I just get 1" and 3/4 pvc and push it over these ribbed pieces? Also. do I glue the actual return pipe and drainpipe into the bulkead or no? Sorry for so many q's.... just don't want to screw this up the first go-round
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Old 01-23-2005, 05:36 PM   #7
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Can anyone give advice on how I should connect the tub (sump) and the 10g aquarium (fuge)?
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:56 PM   #8
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OK, got your PM and will help where I can. Let's start with the megaflow; You describe a ribbed bulhead. This is either a threaded bulkhead or a barbed adapter. If it is threaded like a screw you will need a PVC adapter to hard plumb it or a PVC adapter to a barbed end. If it is barbed you will need flex tubing (kind of like air tube onlt larger) and clamps. I recommend all plastic clamps and threaded tubing as it is stronger.

As for connecting the rubbermaid container to the fuge, simply raise it slightly and cut a hole in it for a bulkhead and let gravity feed your sump/refugium. I would also suggest that you reverse the multiple bubble baffles to the return pump side. On that note, as said above a larger pump will be required for a desired effect. I would recommend a good pressure rated external pump, but that would require another hole in your sump/fuge for return. I would at least recommend a Mag12.

Keep in mind the rate of eveporation in your sump will weigh heavily on the size of your return chamber for your pump. This is where you will see your evaporation.

I can draw a diagram if you like.

HTH,
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Old 01-23-2005, 07:38 PM   #9
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Ohh snap! now you're talking business! Yeah, after I anchor the bulkheads on the tank with the soft rubber washer and huge threaded nuts, there are pieces which can be cemented into the bottomside of the bulkeads I just seated (no threads on the tops of them - just flat so it takes cement to make em stick) and then about 2 /12 inches of huge barbs on the other end. So basically I have two black plastic big ribbed 3/4" and a 1" ends just sticking straight down into my cabinet area. How the heck do I get PVC on there? And what size PVC do I need?

WAIT - I just thought of something.... I can not glue on those barbed things and I still have a lot of the thread on the bottom of both of the bulkheads showing that I can apply some adapters to them if needed - is that what you are talking about? Just going without the ribbed deals?

Will do on the bubble baffle side change. This is a brand new AGA 10g plain tank... I'm not sure if the side is tempered to get a bulkhead drilled in there for an ext. pump so I may have to do an in-tank return.

Wow. will I really need a pump that big... I am going at a 45 degree angle 43" to bottom of tank and then 19" up to water surface.

As for the evap - is that due to the pump heat? Do I want that chamber as tight as possible?

Thanks again - kudos to you
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Old 01-23-2005, 07:40 PM   #10
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Thanks for helping out Sumphead.

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Old 01-23-2005, 07:43 PM   #11
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The ball valves need to go above the true unions. Think of it like this. Should you ever need to disconnect and remove the sump from the tank you will want to cut off the water from the tank and then disconnect the plumbing. This means you neeed the ball valve above the untion so when you disconnect the union the water from the tank doesnt go all over the place.

The concept of the union on the pump is so you can disconnect the pump from the plumbing with out cutting it out or doing to much damage to your plumbing setup. This is where a true untion after the pump is good as well as a ball valve above it so you can turn off the water going back to the tank and disconnect the pump.

A one way 'flap' valve can also limit the amount of water that returns when power is off. DONT get the ones that have metal springs in them. As you know metal and staltwater dont mix well. Marinedepot is one of the stores online that can sell you a metal free oneway 'flap' valve.

I second the suggestion for a larger return pump. Your going to end up with a head height of at least 4' or 5' and remember pumps dont have a consistant output at any headheight. The higher you pump your water up the lower the overall GPH output of the pump.

You could connect the tub and the refuge by drilling a hole in the tub an dinstalling a bulkhead and plumbing. Rase the tub so the outlet thats maybe 3/4th up the side of the sump spills into the left chamber of your refuge. Dont run your fuge at full capacity as you will need to allow for water to flow into the sump and fuge from the tank when power is cut.
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Old 01-23-2005, 07:58 PM   #12
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Ok, makes perfect sense now. I will run those BV's and Unions exactly as stated. I will also use marinedepot for these valves... makes me glad I didnt go to HD too soon - I put money on it that I would have picked up metal constructed ones


One other thing - when my AquaC Pro comes in - I just drop this thing in the tub and let it pick up and spit out water in the same area with no adapters or no plumbing attached to it or should I like run the output of it over to another area of my setup?

Thanks again all - kud's to you too ff
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Old 01-23-2005, 09:06 PM   #13
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I'm with FF on the unions and the ball valves, however I am not a fan of check valves (flap valves). If your running water capacity is large enough to cover for power failure then omit them if you can. I would also try to get a large of a sump as you can squeeze in there. And definately do NOT make the return chamber small. Make it as LARGE as you can or just a little evap can cause your pump to run dry.

Another reason ro go bigger may be your skimmer. You say Aqua C pro so I am guessing either a remora or an urchin. Neither of hich will work in a 10Gallon tank, they are too tall.

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Old 01-23-2005, 09:19 PM   #14
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Well, I was wanting to put the Urchin in the 18g tub on the left - should I not? The water level should be at around 10 or so inches after I make my bulkhead cut to drain to the refugium tank.

The problem I see with going bigger than a 10 gallon - lets say a 20 on the fuge is that it will be more taller with a few more inches in length. The top of the 10 that I have sitting there now is already cutting it close as far as being almost as tall as the rubbermaid sump which is about as tall as I can go in itself stand space wise. If the aquarium fuge gets any taller, I wont be able to run the gravity drain over the top and will have to take a chance on it being tempered and try to pop a hole in the side glass to run through it. (not that it was espensive, but....)

I can't really raise the sump tub any because I wont have any room to work in it/dump water etc. The darn drawers are already right above it already with a few inches of workspace. I hope all of this makes sense - if not, ask and I will clarify.

TIA
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Old 01-24-2005, 06:47 PM   #15
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Anyone?
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:09 PM   #16
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Sorry Spencer, it sounds fine. An 18 gallon rubbermaid should be taller than your 10 gallon so make sure your bulkhead is higher than the 10, also make sure it is large enough diamater to accept the flow. Should be fine.

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Old 01-24-2005, 10:46 PM   #17
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Aight, the building shall commence!! Well, off to the Depot tomorrow then. Once again, thanks again everyone and a special thx to Sump.

To anyone following this thread - I will try to add an updated drawing of my final design and the parts/cost of the project when I get a chance.

Spencer
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