This really upset me

[jarrod0987]

Don't know if you have seen this? Apparently our SW fish are still being mostly collected by Cyanide and killed by food fisherman blasting. Unreal.

 

[Sniperhank]

I've actually watched all the presentations from this years MACNA.
The cyanide isn't anything new, it isn't a practice that you see worldwide. An example would be Hawaii where it is illegal, but then again many things with collection are. I believe that was also discussed in one of the presentations, just not that one.

 

[jarrod0987]

One positive thing she said was that a Cn test is in development so consumers and distributors can test there fish for Cn after they buy them. Would help make decisions about future acquisitions.

 

[philipraposo198]

How the saltwater hobby is destroying our oceans

The Horrendous Way Fish are Captured for Your Aquarium?With Cyanide

Do you care where your fish came from?
Do you seek out locally bred fish?
Should we put an end to saltwater fish keeping for the greater good of humanity and our planet?
Did you know this is happening?

Lets discuss! Please avoid personal attacks. Be respectful. thank you.

 

[justinmo]

How the saltwater hobby is destroying our oceans

I like to think most good aquarists will buy fish from reputable sellers and fish and live rock/dry rock that isn't taken away from the wild. Especially since even though it's environmental effects are terrible, it's just cruel to take a fish from their real environment and trapping it inside a glass box that will never fully replicate any aspect of its real habitat imo.

 

[justinmo]

And no we shouldn't stop keeping fish, as long as we make sure to get fish from breeders and not the wild

 

[philipraposo198]

95% of saltwater fish in the hobby are directly caught from the ocean and are not captive bred.

 

[bribo12]

They're making huge strides in captive breeding especially with tangs and larger fish. I believe the first hippo tangs were just bred in captivity. Yes most SW fish are taken from the oceans currently and cyanide is a huge issue but I wouldn't say the SW hobby is destroying our oceans. There's a lot worse things humans have done that have led to the declines of the oceans reefs.

 

[Andy Sager]

Unfortunately, the fish keeping hobby is far from the cause of the decline of the oceans. Yes, there were ( and probably still are) areas in the world that used chemicals to collect the fish we keep but there are less of those areas now. HOWEVER, environmental reasons are more to blame for the decline of the oceans than fish collectors are. It's happened here in FL and was directly caused by human activities NOT associated with tropical fish collecting. Yes, human activity is a major cause of the decline even if you don't believe in climate change being a cause but it's not from collecting fish. Look at the decimation of the shark population solely for the fins to make soup. The problem is that without the top predators, the system collapses and it's shown by the areas where there is no shark collecting and those areas are teaming with fish life.
Now, if you want to be a responsible aquarist, don't try to keep a fish that grows to 20 lbs in a tank that only holds 50 gallons of water. Don't keep a fish that needs open water to swim in in a tank that is highly decorated because it looks nicer that way. Don't keep trying to mix the fish you want instead of mixing the fish that can be mixed.

Threads like this are good for discussion but without the facts, they are not really beneficial. Here's some articles you should read:
Massive 40% decline in ocean's phytoplankton puts entire food chain under threat | Daily Mail Online

Loss of Biodiversity and Extinctions — Global Issues

(This last one is science and not opinion.)

It's not because of the tropical fish industry.

 

[coralbandit]

This does not come close to the disrespect we show this planet.
It would be nice if it was different [I mean this] , but from an avid 30+ year keeper not that big of a deal IMO.
I didn't watch the link as in this day finding ANYTHING without some personal spin is difficult to say the least.

 

[Brookster123]

This is a drop in the bucket, haven't seen much about the ohhh.. Umm.. bleaching of the reefs in Australia?? Kind of a big deal.. humans are going to have what they want and want what they don't have.. gotta get them fish somehow..

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[philipraposo198]

They're making huge strides in captive breeding especially with tangs and larger fish. I believe the first hippo tangs were just bred in captivity. Yes most SW fish are taken from the oceans currently and cyanide is a huge issue but I wouldn't say the SW hobby is destroying our oceans. There's a lot worse things humans have done that have led to the declines of the oceans reefs.

My wording is something to take with a grain f salt. I should be more clear though.

The capture of saltwater fish is a contributing factor to which is destructive to our oceans.

 

[philipraposo198]

Unfortunately, the fish keeping hobby is far from the cause of the decline of the oceans. Yes, there were ( and probably still are) areas in the world that used chemicals to collect the fish we keep but there are less of those areas now. HOWEVER, environmental reasons are more to blame for the decline of the oceans than fish collectors are. It's happened here in FL and was directly caused by human activities NOT associated with tropical fish collecting. Yes, human activity is a major cause of the decline even if you don't believe in climate change being a cause but it's not from collecting fish. Look at the decimation of the shark population solely for the fins to make soup. The problem is that without the top predators, the system collapses and it's shown by the areas where there is no shark collecting and those areas are teaming with fish life.
Now, if you want to be a responsible aquarist, don't try to keep a fish that grows to 20 lbs in a tank that only holds 50 gallons of water. Don't keep a fish that needs open water to swim in in a tank that is highly decorated because it looks nicer that way. Don't keep trying to mix the fish you want instead of mixing the fish that can be mixed.

Threads like this are good for discussion but without the facts, they are not really beneficial. Here's some articles you should read:
Massive 40% decline in ocean's phytoplankton puts entire food chain under threat | Daily Mail Online

Loss of Biodiversity and Extinctions — Global Issues

(This last one is science and not opinion.)

It's not because of the tropical fish industry.

I am very aware of many of the issues surrounding the destruction of oceans.

But when we look at the saltwater hobby, it's easy enough to pass laws which would protect wild caught fish. Making it illegal to sell wild caught would certainly help don't you think?

Why would people who love these fish and reefs want to do something that will hurt the things they love. As hobbyist we can make a huge difference in how the fish are sold.

 

[philipraposo198]

This is a drop in the bucket, haven't seen much about the ohhh.. Umm.. bleaching of the reefs in Australia?? Kind of a big deal.. humans are going to have what they want and want what they don't have.. gotta get them fish somehow..

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I agree it's small when comparing to other contributors but is it not important to target all fronts in order to save our precious oceans?

It seems so far the conversation is surrounding justification and not really addressing the issue I am trying to bring to light.

We can start another topic on saving the oceans and discuss all the major contributors. But those should not take away from this discussion.

Focusing on how we keep saltwater livestock and being responsible in collection and breeding projects is what's important.

Redirecting the attention to larger issues doesn't fix or help the one I am currently trying to discuss and fix.

 

[Brookster123]

Well.. of I were to hop on a soap box and cry out??plastics.. plastics, micro beads, all the soda bottles comprising the many floating trash islands out there?? While I do not fully agree with the means in which sw fish are procured for the the hobby. I can appreciate the efforts recycled back into the hobby from said members. It's not pretty but it certainly ain't ugly.. so oooo many problems before fish gathering my friend

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[SeanMonster]

I agree it's small when comparing to other contributors but is it not important to target all fronts in order to save our precious oceans?

It seems so far the conversation is surrounding justification and not really addressing the issue I am trying to bring to light.

We can start another topic on saving the oceans and discuss all the major contributors. But those should not take away from this discussion.

Focusing on how we keep saltwater livestock and being responsible in collection and breeding projects is what's important.

Redirecting the attention to larger issues doesn't fix or help the one I am currently trying to discuss and fix.

While I agree with you that we need to be responsible, passing even more regulations is about as productive as "redirecting the attention to larger issues". Increased regulation rarely helps the issue. Often it makes the issue bigger as those that it affects most try to find loopholes and work-arounds. As many above me have stated, there are many in the hobby that have embarked on captive breeding projects that are showing great promise. The owner of the lfs that I use is big on sustainability and is watching these projects with avid interest. A majority of the coral sold in the shop is cultured vice collected. They are also very involved with their customer base, helping them with husbandry. I have seen them refuse to sell livestock on a number of occasions because they feel that it is their responsibility to ensure that the animals they sell have the best chance for survival.

I'm sure that every hobby out there has a negative impact on the earth or society in some fashion. I think that we should work on finding more sustainable solutions and "fix ourselves" instead of asking the governments of the world to pass even more regulation.

Just my two cents.

 

[philipraposo198]

So let's not worry about adding additional regulations.

How about educating the hobbyist and get everyone on board with only buying captive bred species.

This would then force even more effort to be put into finding ways to accomplish this as the consumer can drive change more than anyone. Money talks.

 

[Brookster123]

So let's not worry about adding additional regulations.

How about educating the hobbyist and get everyone on board with only buying captive bred species.

This would then force even more effort to be put into finding ways to accomplish this as the consumer can drive change more than anyone. Money talks.

That sounds great and all like sunshine and rainbows.. let's face it.. Unless amazon starts offering captive bred sw fish on prime with a live arrival guarantee it's survival of the fittest man.

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[SeanMonster]

That sounds great and all like sunshine and rainbows.. let's face it.. Unless amazon starts offering captive bred sw fish on prime with a live arrival guarantee it's survival of the fittest man.

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So it's not easy so let's not even try.

 

[Brookster123]

So it's not easy so let's not even try.

Going for it man, start the movement.

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