Zachs 20 gal long build, addittions and filtration

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Zach the only thing I'll criticize on at all is that you need to understand that a reef tank DOES require time. It's not a lot once you're setup (I spend about 2 hours a week on my tank at this point) - but getting rolling you should understand that you're going to be spending multiple hours working on things, getting them just right.

Not trying to discourage you - quite the contrary - but understand that, at least initially, PWCs are not the only time you're going to be devoting to this. To do it right, you should be testing your trace elements (At the LEAST calcium and alkalinity, trates, trites, phates) several times a week, you're going to need to tweak things like skimming, lighting times, and you need to be prepared for the unexpected. When you have an algae bloom (and you will, it happens to all new tanks that I've ever seen) you need to understand that you're going to need to have time to devote to scraping stuff out of the tank. It's not going to be weekly, it's going to be daily. That won't last forever - don't let what I'm saying deter you - but after a few years of keeping a fowlr I can tell you I didn't get to the point where it only required a couple hours a week for a good long while.

Best bet is to think of the hobby differently than you would from playing hockey, or scuba diving, or golfing. You need to remember that there are living creatures at the butt-end of this particular hobby. Corals, fishes etc are just as much alive pets as cats or dogs. No, you don't cuddle with them, but I get almost as upset at the loss of a prized fish as I do at the loss of a bird (definitely) or a cat (maybe not quite). I don't agree with the attitude you're catching necessarily, but you should make sure that you are prepared to devote the hours you'll need to keeping these living creatures happy and healthy. If your goal is simply to keep them alive....well...thats not the right attitude at all.

Reef keeping, by its very nature, is trying to establish a small ecosystem of creatures. Your own small slice of the ocean is the goal. That goal does not come without considerable investment of cash, time, and energy. If you don't have the time to commit (and many don't, not a judgement), then perhaps considering something like a hamster would be more appropriate.

If you decide you're in this for the long haul, then I look forward to your updates and (hopefully) photos as you come along...I admit I move slower than most, but understand that you don't go from buckets of water to a reef tank overnight. I've been running a fowlr for 4 years and am just now really reefing it out, as I've gained confidence in the hobby.
 
the point i was trying to make was i dont have the time to upgrade right now, as an expierenced reefer you should know that upgrading to a knew tank take hours and hours a week, time i dont have, i feel like this guy is critisizing me unfairly and putting words in my mouth
 
the point i was trying to make was i dont have the time to upgrade right now, as an expierenced reefer you should know that upgrading to a knew tank take hours and hours a week, time i dont have, i feel like this guy is critisizing me unfairly and putting words in my mouth

Zach - I don't disagree...but understand that even getting a semi-running tank up to full blown reef is going to take a LOT of time. Take whatever time you have budgeted to this project and triple it. If that estimate makes you cringe then understand, you don't have the time for it.

I refer back to a statement I made in your previous thread. If what you want is lots of brightly colored fish with minimal time investment, check out african cichlids. If you're in this for the long haul, and the right attitude however, I'm more than happy to help in any way I can. I'm new to the reef game myself, but I've kept fishtanks for long enough that I know how quickly they can eat your time ;)
 
i am in this for the long haul and very day i do spend about 30 mins on my tank, but i just dont have time for a new tank, this guy is putting words in my mouth and unfairly critisizing me
 
Fly back to your first post, ok, you want 5 fish in there, not 6.... My bad.

It's still too many in my opinion.

I'd really like to know why you couldn't just be happy with your pair of clowns?

Why do you want to overstock/stock to the hilt?

I criticise because I've read this and another thread where you simply took no notice of what people said to you. You asked for advice and disregarded it.

I'm not going to comment again, do as you like, it's not my £ you are spending.

Good day.
 
its because in 5 months of reefing you are the only person that said a 20 could only add 2 fish
 
2 fish is my personal opinion.

Others may say you can have 10.

If you took a dump in a swimming pool there would be 1 turd floating, if 10 people did it there would be 10, do this 3 times a day and soon you would be up to the neck in raw sewage.

Do you get what I'm saying?

Here's a pic of my main tank, how many fish do you see?

It's a red sea max 250 by the way.

img_1704512_0_87867caef00412d0509938bcd5106cf3.jpg
 
nice tank but did you take into account that unlike the pool has rock, filtration flow and water changes
 
Point Zach. Interesting to see some thought going into responses other than "ok, can I put (insert inappropriate stock list) in?"
 
I think, and feel free to disagree, that this discussion is likely not going to lead anywhere - here's my suggestion, and I think most of the folks here would agree.

Get your tank up, running, and cycled.
Add one fish and sit on it. Wait. Check your levels constantly and see how it goes. Personally for a 20 I wouldn't do more than 4 small fish, but that's captain understock talking here. Once you know that the tank is cycled and has enough bacteria to support that fish, add another one. Repeat. I would tend to agree that 5 is the absolute max I would suggest.

I've seen people pack a butt-ton of fish into a tank before too, but just because the stuff is alive doesn't mean its healthy or happy, lets keep that in mind.
 
I think this will be the order
1 goby
WAit a week
The other goby
Wait 2 weeks
The gramma
Wait 2 weeks the clowns

Replace "week" with "month or more" and you might be ok. That is still very heavy stocking IMO for a 20 gallon and certainly more fish than I would personally add. Remember- the fish you see at the lfs are almost never adult size.

Your tank is going to be less stressful and more enjoyable if you choose a reasonable stock list. It seems that you just want to cram as many fish as you can in there- not a recipe for long term success IMO.
 
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I agree with a month after each. I do think that you have 1 too many fish for a 20g also, only plan 5 for my 30g.
You don't want to overstock as that is where problems occur, less fish will be less stress on the current occupants as they need their own teritory, otherwise it will be very stressful for them.

I agree with everything in the post above. Most fish are usually only juvies when they are at the LFS
 
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