Absolute Newbie, looking for help

[bluerose]

I'll third or fourth the Python (or cheap knockoff depending on your setup). MUCH easier. Prime doesn't make the ammonia "disappear"; only binds it so it is non-toxic to fish while the bacteria in your tank busily convert it to nitrite (so that another group of bacteria can convert it to nitrate).

 

[XimeD]

Did you guys do this while cycling too? I am concerned about chlorine and chloramines also, I dont want to kill off my good bacteria.

Anyway, from a chemistry perspective I very much doubt that the prime works instantaneously there has to be some time delay before the prime "finds" all the ammonia, chlorine and chloramine molecules. Though from what you guys are saying it is likely that the reaction is very very fast and what little is left doesnt really affect anything in the tank.

So the verdict is that I should get a python =)

 

[jessibell]

I've always been skeptical about the speed of dechlorinators (I recently moved to a larger town where the fish store has pay more product and found Prime there, and am now a convert myself!) I always figured the water had to be thoroughly mixed with the stuff, so I pout my water in gallon jugs and shake them up for a few seconds before I pour it in LOL!

 

[XimeD]

I've always been skeptical about the speed of dechlorinators (I recently moved to a larger town where the fish store has pay more product and found Prime there, and am now a convert myself!) I always figured the water had to be thoroughly mixed with the stuff, so I pout my water in gallon jugs and shake them up for a few seconds before I pour it in LOL!

Yeah, that's what I feel too, though it is possible that in a well established tank chlorine and chloramines kill some of the good bacteria but not enough to make a dent and these are quickly replaced by reproduction of the existing bacterial colonies and that is why people that dont do the premixing dont see any negative effects. Actually I would argue for mixing the water, based on the fact that it is not going to do any harm and it can only do good, but it is annoying and time consuming........

I feel this might be a more important in cycling tanks, ie - what would kill 2% of bacteria population in a well established tank might be killing 80% of bacteria in a tank that is just starting to cycle. Also this would be worsened by the daily PWCs vs say weekly on an established tank.

I don't know, have not read much on this particular topic yet, this is just what makes sense to me based based on my chemistry and biology knowledge, so I could be way off the mark here. My darn master API kit didn't get here yet and I don't want to make any conclusions with only a partial picture.

If what I am saying is correct, then for a cycling tank with some of the bateria that oxidize ammonia to nitrite a PWC killing a good fraction should result in ammonia increasing faster than before and nitrites should increase at a lower rate. However, this would be very hard to detect on a daily PWC schedule and also might not be in the range that the measuring kit detects (yeah, I work in a chemistry research lab so sorry if im boring people)

 

[jessibell]

actually, the amount of bacteria floating in the water is very small - the bacteria adhere to surfaces so PWCs generally don't remove much of the established bacteria. The reason why bio foam is so great at nitrification is because all the pores create a very high surface area per volume of water that the growing bacteria can stick to.

 

[XimeD]

actually, the amount of bacteria floating in the water is very small - the bacteria adhere to surfaces so PWCs generally don't remove much of the established bacteria. The reason why bio foam is so great at nitrification is because all the pores create a very high surface area per volume of water that the growing bacteria can stick to.

Yeah, but if the water I am adding to the tank during PWC has some chlorine and chloramines still in it (which would get neutralized by the dechlorinator in the tank eventually)wouldnt this kill some bacteria once the new water hits the filter?

 

[brimac41]

I have used a python while cycling my tanks . I removed X amount of water , add enough prime for the ENTIRE volume of the tank (not only for the water I have removed) and then replace water with the Python . It has never stalled my cycle or stretched out my cycling time .

If you do not feel comfortable using a Python , then don't use it to refill your tank directly . Just fill your fish bucket with it , add Prime (or your dechlor of choice) , give it a stir (I use my arm when adding water with a bucket) and dump it in . People have been using it for years , during cycling and with established aquariums with positive results . Not long ago I cycled my old 20 gal. that has been setting in the basement for a few years using my Python (removing and adding) and seeded filter media and it cycled quite readily without problem one . But then again , make your water changes as you see fit , it is your aquarium . If you want to let your fresh water set for hours then do it if you feel more comfortable that way . I was just making a general statement that it does not take hours for it to work .

I do not use Prime for it's ability to bind the ammonia , that thought doesn't even enter my mind . I only use Prime because it is highly concentrated and lasts longer than most other dechlorinators and saves me money in the long run .

 

[XimeD]

Thanks Brimac, I will be getting a python soon .

I was just wondering about these things, I have no experience with aquaria, I was just wondering from a theoretical perspective, but from what people have said it definitely looks like adding water directly to the tank will not stall cycling.

I am still doing 50% daily (or everyother day) PWCs to keep my ammonia at 0.25ppm with nitrites and nitrates at 0ppm so a python would be really nice right now

 

[brimac41]

Your more than welcome . It's all very confusing when you first start out . But at least you have proved yourself serious about the hobby and the care and health of your fish which I find refreshing .

 

[XimeD]

As an update my tank is now almost cycled (ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrites 0ppm and nitrates ~5ppm). Fish are looking very healthy but I will need to either get a bigger tank fairly soon or find a new home for my RTTF barbs, they are starting to get bigger.

Thanks to everyone for the help =)

 

[swankyspoon]

Congrats! I too just got through fish filled cycle after following LFS advice. My fish are perhaps slightly overstocked. If I had continued following their advice it could have been worse...

 

[XimeD]

Congrats! I too just got through fish filled cycle after following LFS advice. My fish are perhaps slightly overstocked. If I had continued following their advice it could have been worse...

Thanks Congrats to you on getting through cycling too. I wish I had found this site sooner it would have saved me a lot of worry. I am thinking about getting a 75gal tank in a few months and if I do I will definitely fishless cycle (and seed with media from my 20gal).