Active carbon

[newbie_dave]

Does anyone actually use active carbon in there filter and if so what does it do,I got told to take it off because I'd you need to medicate the carbon soaks the meds straight up, does it clear up gh and kh? The only other thing is I like my tank water slightly tanned as I use almond leafs so of I started using carbon it would be a waste of time because it will soak it up is this right?

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[RedDevil83]

Yes it clears the tank of impurities sort of.. makes your tank crystal clear. I use it, but only one bag in the media.

It's your preference though as long as the fish are happy.

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[newbie_dave]

I have traces of kh and gh and no matter how many water changes I do it's still there would the carbon take control of that?

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[gemach7]

I have traces of kh and gh and no matter how many water changes I do it's still there would the carbon take control of that?

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You need KH and GH a tank without any will have super extreme ph swings.

In a very basic nutshell pH is the measure of hydrogen ions. Lower the ph more H+.
Kh is your carbonate hardness carbonates absorb free h+ ions higher Kh = more absorption, too high ph goes up.

Gh is your general hardness these are different ions such as magnesium they build up over time and again buffer ph. Reduce via regular wc.


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[newbie_dave]

Ah right I see thanks for the explanation ?

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[Fresh2o]

When used in the aquarium, carbon will remove various substances in the water. Examples of these substances include tannins and phenols which contribute to the appearance and smell of the water. Medications can be removed as well so it is advised to remove carbon when treating the tank. One disadvantage of carbon is its short usage life. It can become quickly saturated with compounds and become ineffective. Many folks only to use carbon to remove any medications AFTER a treatment regimen has been completed.
Regarding GH and KH, here is a helpful article to read: Beginner FAQ: Practical Water Chemistry Basically, GH and KH is a measurement of the compounds that contribute to the "hardness" of the water. Distilled water is considered "soft" since it is free of salts, buffers, and nutrients. Buffers are important because they can prevent dramatic shifts in pH (which are bad for your fish).
Carbon will not remove GH and KH.

Edit: I type slow. I like gemach7's explanation of pH, GH, and KH.
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[jarrod0987]

I have traces of kh and gh and no matter how many water changes I do it's still there would the carbon take control of that?

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GH and KH are good, you want more then a trace. Use crushed coral or a buffer compound for that. Activated carbon does not effect this.

 

[jarrod0987]

Does anyone actually use active carbon in there filter and if so what does it do,I got told to take it off because I'd you need to medicate the carbon soaks the meds straight up, does it clear up gh and kh? The only other thing is I like my tank water slightly tanned as I use almond leafs so of I started using carbon it would be a waste of time because it will soak it up is this right?

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I use it, I love it. Keeps water from turning yellow or smelling bad. It does this by removing organics from the water so they do not accumulate. Without AC they still accumulate over time even with water changes. Some people will argue that but a calculator will quickly show who is right You have to replace it every 2 weeks to a month also. It gets full.

 

[newbie_dave]

Cheers for the input guys ?

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[gemach7]

I think the single most important thing to invest your money in the beginning is (unexcitingly) the tools and organisation to do water changes with as little effort as possible.

Proper regular water changes will out preform any filter, chemicals, or any other devices you can buy. And if setup from the get go for convenience and ease you will not find these to be a chore.


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[jarrod0987]

I think the single most important thing to invest your money in the beginning is (unexcitingly) the tools and organisation to do water changes with as little effort as possible.

Proper regular water changes will out preform any filter, chemicals, or any other devices you can buy. And if setup from the get go for convenience and ease you will not find these to be a chore.


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If we had a practical test for organics we could put this one to bed. When ever you change less then 100% of water you get accumulation of organics. You will probably reach a low equilibrium that is acceptable. AC can remove all of it. Right now I am involved in conversations regarding Potassium Peregrinate which shows a good visual indication of how many organics you have. Once I get that working we can all see weather water changes or Activated carbon works better for organic removal

OH...And +1 on spending your money on equipment to make water changes easier You still need them for other reasons in most cases.

 

[coralbandit]

Water changes are huge IMO!
#1 in every way shape and form.
#1 best result
#1 most control of nutrients
#1 for work involved
I change water(50% min on my fw weekly),but am the OP on the PP thread and will agree with Jarrods early(he just jumped in on PP) thoughts that DOC still accumulate and become a problem even with average large wc.
The color change and time involved is what says it all.
My nitrates can be 5-10 and PP will degrade and become useless in less then 1/4 of the time it should last.
Reason dissolved organic compounds.
OUR nitrate test kits don't tell the whole story......


The PP thread ;
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/potassium-permanganate-338314.html

 

[jarrod0987]

There is another method of indirectly determining organics. It's a pita.

I think this second vid is actually what i wanted to show you guys.

The more Organics you have the more Biological Oxygen Demand (BOD) you have. Some day i will earn to do this test

 

[Mebbid]

Assuming your tank is consistent then any amount of water will lead to an equilibrium in your tank. Nitrates are a simple way to measure this, if you do 50% weekly water changes and feed consistently your water will even out because you're taking out as much as you're putting in. Dissolved organics are no different, eventually your tank will reach an equilibrium where your tank is producing just as much as you're taking out with water changes. It won't continuously go up forever.

Activated carbon is far from necessary for a healthy tank and this has been proven by all the tanks out there that have been healthily running for many years without ever seeing an ounce of activated carbon.

 

[katiekelsey]

I always keep carbon in my filters. If you have to put medication into the tank then you take out the carbon. When you're done with medications then you put the carbon back in the filter.

 

[gemach7]

Assuming your tank is consistent then any amount of water will lead to an equilibrium in your tank. Nitrates are a simple way to measure this, if you do 50% weekly water changes and feed consistently your water will even out because you're taking out as much as you're putting in. Dissolved organics are no different, eventually your tank will reach an equilibrium where your tank is producing just as much as you're taking out with water changes. It won't continuously go up forever.

Activated carbon is far from necessary for a healthy tank and this has been proven by all the tanks out there that have been healthily running for many years without ever seeing an ounce of activated carbon.

+1

And would say at least half of the posts regrading tank issues are from doing improper WC's or not often enough, and sometimes activated carbon or other quick fixes are put forward as a way to negate these.

Was not trying to start an argument but simply to say if there was one thing to focus on its water changes.




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[jarrod0987]

Assuming your tank is consistent then any amount of water will lead to an equilibrium in your tank. Nitrates are a simple way to measure this, if you do 50% weekly water changes and feed consistently your water will even out because you're taking out as much as you're putting in. Dissolved organics are no different, eventually your tank will reach an equilibrium where your tank is producing just as much as you're taking out with water changes. It won't continuously go up forever.

Activated carbon is far from necessary for a healthy tank and this has been proven by all the tanks out there that have been healthily running for many years without ever seeing an ounce of activated carbon.

Sorry but blanket statements like this do not always hold up. It is true an equilibrium will be reached but when and what level all depend on what rate substance comes in at and no mater what rate you remove it at, it will always be less then 100% so there will always be a rising level over time. AC is a way to remove all the organics. That does not mean it is always "Necessary" but it provides a very nice water quality improvement in most cases. Let's be honest. Even 1 single fish in a aquarium of any size is a higher bio load them most bodies of natural water anyways. That said most of us overstock because empty aquariums are boring. I'm done arguing these well studied and understood points with people who just refuse to accept them. I know I cannot change there mind.

 

[jarrod0987]

+1

And would say at least half of the posts regrading tank issues are from doing improper WC's or not often enough, and sometimes activated carbon or other quick fixes are put forward as a way to negate these.

Was not trying to start an argument but simply to say if there was one thing to focus on its water changes.




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I'm well familiar with the whole Water changes not chemicals attitude. It is deeply impeded in the hobby. As soon as anyone brings up any chemical or filter media they instantly get attacked for advocating anything other then constant water changes. I never heard a good aquarist say there should be no water changes. The point is that you can get better water quality with water changes and other methods to supplement them. I realize you did not intend to start any argument. Neither did I. However, I have figured out the only answer you are allowed to give to give to any problem except disease here is water changes and nothing but. If you say anything else at all, you are wrong. Doesn't matter how many experiments or books or video's or Dr.'s or science you have behind you. You are wrong if you put anything in your tank except water and prime. This attitude is why the fresh water side has been left in the dark ages. The salt water people are much more willing to accept and try out new methods and info.

END OF RANT

Oh, example. Currently experimenting with a 20 gal Walstad tank. I already do a 30% water change every 5th day (or more often) it is not enough to overcome the yellow water (organics) or hazy water (Resulting from organics). More water changes then that are a pain in the ***. AC has fixed these issues in less then 24 hours. I can still do water changes as normal. I don't feel like increasing them any more then some of you feel like using AC. Just to stir the pot more....Phosphates are coming out of the soil at a high rate. WC is not getting it down low enough. So I am also using GFO Que up the angry protest posts

 

[coralbandit]

I like butting heads with M!
Anyone remember "point /counterpoint" on the original "60 minutes"?
I am the water change guy(also sponge /ram guy{who knows what else they call me in the dark?}).
I like PP!
Until any of you(not just M, but get in gear M) can tell me what your DOC level is you have all missed a very important part of proper waterchanges and fishkeeping IMO.
I have and still do change more water then most .
I breed GBR and raise them(even harder then breeding) along with owning a 6 foot tank for the last 20++ years(180g for last 8ish years).
Water changes are #1 IMO but they do NOT tell the whole story.
There should be no reason if I change 50% or more weekly for there to be an accumulation of DOC( from what "all of you" are saying),yet time after time(years) my treatments with potassium permanganate show differently.
I would love to explain why water changes less then 100% aren't enough so maybe you all will look in on this;

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/potassium-permanganate-338314.html
Looking for input ;skeptical and questioning.
I wish waterchanges were the end all be all but I am afraid they are not unless in HUGE volumes.
They may do well for many over a couple of years,
I am talking long term like some of my fish are between 10-13 + years old.

 

[trennamw]

I didn't use carbon for over a year.

Then I put it in to remove tannins, some new driftwood was sharing its tannins more than I wanted. It didn't make a dent in the tannins and didn't affect KH or GH (I supplement for both).

You're going to want KH and GH of at least 3 degrees.


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