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Old 10-31-2013, 03:35 PM   #1
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Adding fish: how many is too many?

I've got my 10 gal cycled and stocked (three guppies, a platty which is moving out soon, and some cherry shrimp). I want to add a nerite snail, and 3 neon/cardinal tetra, and another guppy.

When the platty moves out, I will have 7 fish, shrimp, and a snail. Is that good for a ten gal? I keep the water well maintained with live plants, frequent water changes, and monitoring.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:49 PM   #2
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Yes, those 7 fish and shrimp will give you a fully stocked tank, probably shouldn't add much else.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:55 PM   #3
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Imo, that is too much final stock for a 10g tank. I think you should call it quits on fish with 4 guppies. A nerite snail would be fine though.
Cardinals get bigger than neons, keep that in mind. Also, even for neons, They are quite active and I personally believe you will be overstocked with 4 guppies and 3 neons, because of the size and activity level of those fish. I think it would be better for the fish if you just stuck with that handful of guppies.
If you are dead set on having those 7 fish, I don't recommend it, but make sure you keep on top of water changes and consider re-homing some if they don't all get along. Tetras in small spaces, without a larger school, can sometimes turn nippy.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:52 PM   #4
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Imo, that is too much final stock for a 10g tank. I think you should call it quits on fish with 4 guppies. A nerite snail would be fine though. Cardinals get bigger than neons, keep that in mind. Also, even for neons, They are quite active and I personally believe you will be overstocked with 4 guppies and 3 neons, because of the size and activity level of those fish. I think it would be better for the fish if you just stuck with that handful of guppies. If you are dead set on having those 7 fish, I don't recommend it, but make sure you keep on top of water changes and consider re-homing some if they don't all get along. Tetras in small spaces, without a larger school, can sometimes turn nippy.
Good thoughts. That's what I was afraid of. With four guppies, are there potentially two other small species you would recommend? Bringing the total to 6 small fish. "Preferably something pretty", my wife says...
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:57 PM   #5
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You could always go with some nano fish. I keep a running list of ones I think are attractive just for future ideas. You could have a greater number of them since they're so small. Some of them are harder to find, are more costly, or more finicky though. Here's my list:
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:21 PM   #6
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You could always go with some nano fish. I keep a running list of ones I think are attractive just for future ideas. You could have a greater number of them since they're so small. Some of them are harder to find, are more costly, or more finicky though. Here's my list:
Thank you for your helpful thoughts. You helped me research better.

However, most of the fish on that list need to be in a school, and I'm not confident I have the space for that. I think just two fish would be my max, so I was looking at dwarf gourami's. They stay relatively small and a pair is great for them.

Any experience with dwarf gourami's?
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:25 PM   #7
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Yes, I believe a single DG would probably be better, since if you get two males they can be territorial. I got two of them in a 36 gal a while back and the less dominant one got bullied to death
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:31 AM   #8
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Yes, I believe a single DG would probably be better, since if you get two males they can be territorial. I got two of them in a 36 gal a while back and the less dominant one got bullied to death
I went with a single DG. It acclimated well so far. We will see how the chemistry fares. I also got 2 female guppies. So this concludes the fish for this tank. As I feel I am on the edge of overstocked (5 guppies, 1 DG, 2 nertite snails, and 10 CRS.

The CRS are very small still, and I'm worried that the DG might have eaten some already! I know they need more cover still, and adding more plants is my next adventure in a few weeks. Hopefully the shrimp can make it that long.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:40 AM   #9
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Your gourami looks like it's made itself at home already!
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:54 PM   #10
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Keep a close eye on your water. Honestly, 5 gups plus the dg is rather much. That is more than I would personally put in the tank. Also, with a dg, you can pretty much count on your crs getting eaten. Especially in that small of a space and without tons of plant cover. People often find that crs do not reproduce as fast as some other shrimp in their home set-ups. Adults might be ok, but I wouldn't count on it. Depends on the dg. Good luck though!
As for dg, some people say they do very well in m/f pairs. I only have experience with males. Female dg are actually rather tough to find. They don't sell well in stores because they are so much more bland than the flashy males are. Don't do 2 males. That is too much stock, and they are very likely to fight. Honestly, even a m/f pair not need more space than your tank has. Paired fish are more territorial with tankmates.
Your gourami is a cutie. I hope he does well in the tank and doesn't demolish the shrimp population too quickly. They really are gorgeous fish.
BTW, also, keep an eye on the gups for overpopulating the tank with their masses of babies.
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:32 PM   #11
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Keep a close eye on your water. Honestly, 5 gups plus the dg is rather much. That is more than I would personally put in the tank. Also, with a dg, you can pretty much count on your crs getting eaten. Especially in that small of a space and without tons of plant cover. People often find that crs do not reproduce as fast as some other shrimp in their home set-ups. Adults might be ok, but I wouldn't count on it. Depends on the dg. Good luck though! As for dg, some people say they do very well in m/f pairs. I only have experience with males. Female dg are actually rather tough to find. They don't sell well in stores because they are so much more bland than the flashy males are. Don't do 2 males. That is too much stock, and they are very likely to fight. Honestly, even a m/f pair not need more space than your tank has. Paired fish are more territorial with tankmates. Your gourami is a cutie. I hope he does well in the tank and doesn't demolish the shrimp population too quickly. They really are gorgeous fish. BTW, also, keep an eye on the gups for overpopulating the tank with their masses of babies.
I have been watching them. Pretty sure the DG has eaten some shrimp already. but it was all I could do for the moment. I want to eventually move the shrimp to a single gallon tank that is cycling right now. It is also where I will be putting the guppy babies, till I can take them to the LFS.

I want to add more plants so that there will be plenty of cover for the fish and shrimp, but since the tank is relatively new, the biology of the substrate was not established well enough yet. Probably will continue to monitor water quality for a week or so, then add some java moss to the driftwood. I'll probably get a few more plants at that time as well. I've found this to be a patience producing hobby.
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:54 PM   #12
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I have never found an issue with shoving java moss into a new tank, it seems to be very hardy and does fine even in new tanks. It looks messy, but is great for shrimp to hide in.
Just a point of caution, a 1g tank is pretty small even for shrimp and you will barely be able to fit guppy babies in there for long. I have kept rcs in a 1g for a bit, and then in a 2.5g. IME, even the 2.5g was rather limited. The 1g was way too small for me, especially once i shoved a sponge filter in there. The 2.5g was better for shrimp/fry by far. I ended up just using my 1g tank for live food.
Have you checked with your lfs to see at what size they will take guppy fry?
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #13
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Endlers Livebearers are small and really cool looking too
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:22 PM   #14
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I have never found an issue with shoving java moss into a new tank, it seems to be very hardy and does fine even in new tanks. It looks messy, but is great for shrimp to hide in. Just a point of caution, a 1g tank is pretty small even for shrimp and you will barely be able to fit guppy babies in there for long. I have kept rcs in a 1g for a bit, and then in a 2.5g. IME, even the 2.5g was rather limited. The 1g was way too small for me, especially once i shoved a sponge filter in there. The 2.5g was better for shrimp/fry by far. I ended up just using my 1g tank for live food. Have you checked with your lfs to see at what size they will take guppy fry?
I didn't talk to them to extensively about it. They don't give cash for them, but prefer to trade for food and supplies. They said that they quarantine the fish for 14 days after they arrive and they sell guppy fry too.

Hopefully when the rcs get bigger they won't be as threatened and can join the 10g community. There are still at least 6 that I have seen, but they are only 1/2" max right now. When they approach 1" or 1 1/2" they should be fine. I haven't seen the DG actually eat a shrimp. When he gets close they usually swim away faster than he is interested.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:43 PM   #15
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That is good. It could be that it works out ok for you and they 2 co-exist. I just doubt it because that is not usually the way it works. Fish are individuals though.
Good to know the lfs takes fry. Many lfs have a base size for babies that they will take for trade-in. I suggest asking them if they have a size minimum. The tough part is that you will run out of space from multiple fry drops before too many get big enough to trade in. And in a 1g, out of space will happen pretty quick. Better than nothing though.
If you are able to, I suggest looking into a little 2.5g (even just a used one) instead of the 1g. Barely takes up more space, but would be more useful to you. If you can't then just it all work the best you can.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:02 PM   #16
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That is good. It could be that it works out ok for you and they 2 co-exist. I just doubt it because that is not usually the way it works. Fish are individuals though. Good to know the lfs takes fry. Many lfs have a base size for babies that they will take for trade-in. I suggest asking them if they have a size minimum. The tough part is that you will run out of space from multiple fry drops before too many get big enough to trade in. And in a 1g, out of space will happen pretty quick. Better than nothing though. If you are able to, I suggest looking into a little 2.5g (even just a used one) instead of the 1g. Barely takes up more space, but would be more useful to you. If you can't then just it all work the best you can.
Thanks. I totally will be on the look out. A co worker just offered me a tank. It's 10g or 20g (she's not sure). If I can see the set up, and it's good stuff, then maybe I can expand further. As long as the price is right and the wife allows yet another tank in our tiny apartment.

Also I just got home from work and I can't find any rcs. I guess I thought that the DG's mouth was smaller, but when he opens it, it get pretty big. Really bummed, and wish I had thought to move them first. I would have if I had known they would become a snack...oh well. Live and learn. Circle of life.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:23 PM   #17
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Well, there is a chance you have a few hiding really well. But yeah, I'm sorry about that. It happens. Now you know, and next time you can be more prepared. Congrats on maybe being able to find another tank speedily. I am guessing that is she doesn't know how big, it is probably a 10g. I think 10g are the most commonly sold tanks.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:25 AM   #18
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Well, there is a chance you have a few hiding really well. But yeah, I'm sorry about that. It happens. Now you know, and next time you can be more prepared. Congrats on maybe being able to find another tank speedily. I am guessing that is she doesn't know how big, it is probably a 10g. I think 10g are the most commonly sold tanks.
Probably, but she said that she used it for a long time. She had fish, but moved and didn't have space. From the size she said it was, I'm thinking 20, but you are probably right about 10.

Also good news! I tested the water, and the nitrate and ammonia was a little higher than previously (normal when adding three fish to a 10g), so I did a water change. While moving things around I found a single rcs. It led me to explore and so far I found 6 of 10 originally! They we're deep in the driftwood. One was so far inside that I couldn't get him out!

Anyway, now there are 5 rcs in the 1g. I know that is pretty tight for them, but they have a better chance in there than with the DG.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:05 PM   #19
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Great! They should be fine in there for a bit. You only have a few anyways.
And hey, hopefully it is a 20. Bigger is generally good in tanks (if you have space) because you have more stocking options. It is just my experience that everybody and their grandma has at some point kept a randomly stocked 10g tank for a bit of their life, and they tend to think it is bigger than it is because that is what they are used to seeing. :p
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