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Old 05-05-2004, 12:10 PM   #1
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Ammo-Lock and Bio filter

Will the use of Ammo-Lock effect the development of the bio-filter? I'm cycling a tank w/gold fish. The ammonia spiked at 2.5 ppm. I have it down to 1.0 ppm now. I was wondering if I should take it down further, leave it where it is or use Ammo-Lock to convert it. Nitrite is 0.1 ppm. and nitrates are somewhere between 0 and 5 ppm (the color of the test is between the two readings).
Thanks in advance!

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Old 05-05-2004, 12:17 PM   #2
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How long have you been cycling the tank? How are the goldfish doing?
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Old 05-05-2004, 12:49 PM   #3
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13 days. The goldfish seem to be doing ok, eating, swimming, acting normally.
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Old 05-05-2004, 12:53 PM   #4
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Brings up an even more detailed scenario

I too am cycling a tank, though I am happy to report my Amonia levels are pretty low: 0.30ppm according to my tests.

However, my Ph is a little higher than I'd like: Averaging about 7.7 - 7.8. I was recommended to use the satchel version of Ph 7.0 by FishDoctor (sp?). But just as I was about to add, in reading the directions, it siad my Amonia should be 0.

You think it will be a waste? Or should I get Amonia-Lock and bring my levels from a small ).25 down to 0.0 before adding Ph 7.0
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Old 05-06-2004, 11:00 AM   #5
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jaysono- most are of the opinion that the use of chemicals to adjust the pH should be avoided. If you are cycling a tank with fish in it they are already stressed. Changing the pH will further stress the fish. A mature tank will have a slightly lower pH normally unless you have very hard water (and very hard water will not be affected by a pH adjusting chemical anyways).
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Old 05-06-2004, 11:40 AM   #6
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I agree, there is no need to add chemicals to alter the pH of any tank. There are natural ways to alter the pH of the tanks and as the tank ages, the pH will go down.
tmurphy, I think the tank is doing well--the ammonia should be going down and the nitrites going up and then you should see nitrates. Keep in mind that high nitrites are as dangerous as high ammonia.
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Old 05-08-2004, 12:01 AM   #7
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I'm a newbie...

but everything reputable that I have read says that Ammo Lock is OK for the biological filter.... it's supposed to "lock" up the ammonia into a form less toxic to FISH but still eatable by your nitrifying bacteria or perhaps a different species of bacteria

even if some of the ammonia is made unavailable to the nitrifying bacteria if it's at toxic levels then they've got plenty of ammonia to encourage growth, you can afford to get rid of some for the sake of the fish
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Old 05-08-2004, 03:25 AM   #8
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Menagerie my ammo has shot up to 5 ppm and nitrites are at .5 ppm today. I've been on bucket duty tonight. crayola227 Thanks for the reply. I've read the same info you did. I just wanted to get an 'old timers' opinion as I'm a newbie too.
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Old 05-08-2004, 12:46 PM   #9
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Looks like you got your ammonia spike. Ammonia should start going down and nitrites should go up. Instead of adding AmmoLock, just do water changes--that will reduce the amount of ammonia in the tank and I truly believe, the less chemicals, the better.

Crayola, even though you astericked the "u" in your sig, you need to change it. This is a family oriented site.
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Old 05-08-2004, 12:48 PM   #10
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Tmurphy,

Along similar lines for me. My Bio-wheel has been going on for almost 4 weeks now. My 1st week I had no fish, and the last three I've added leopard danio's.

My tap water here is very hard...reading about 13. And with recent hot weather I've been experiencing some evap as well. Every few days, I've added almost a gal of pure R/O, to no avail....water test this morning still showed about 13. My Ph has remained constant from day 1: 7.7-7.8...still after 4 weeks!

My Amonia level recently climbed...I was at roughly .25ppm, but this morning it registered .50ppm. This could be due to the fact that my bio-filter has yet to take hold and that the fish flakes not eaten...(looks like they do get them all eventually) have added undesired Amonia. So I added Ammo-Lock for the 1st time today. 1tsp for each 10 gal as suggested. So I added 1.5tsp for my 16 gal tank. Will see what happens tomorrow.

My nitarates are still .25 and never moved.

I also added 1tsp of Stress-Zyme today as well....supposed to add beneficial bacteria, and directed to do it again on day 7 and 14.

LFS expert told me to hold off on a water change last week or a few weeks too on a new tank, which may be why my Ph hasn't gone down, and my Ammonia up. I'm starting to get wary from his advice as I was planning on adding a few more fish in about 1 week.

I know a few were against me adding 'Proper Ph' satchel, but if I don't have an improvemnt in teh next day or two, I may add it anyway. :|

Advice anyone?
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Old 05-08-2004, 12:51 PM   #11
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Ammino lock does not eliminate the ammonia in a tank. It only changes its composition to a less toxic state. Notice I said LESS toxic, even though it is not there it was converted to another chemical that is not measured with aquarium test kits. By adding ammino lock it is also harder to use your ammonia test kits. They are very apt to giving you wrong readings when ammino lock is used. Do as others here have stated and just keep up with the frequent water changes. There are many tools in the hobby to make this a snap. The python is one good example.
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Old 05-08-2004, 01:11 PM   #12
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Menagerie, Whats the story with Cycle and Stress Zyme? Are they worth using or a waist of money?. I've been using Bio-Coat to treat the water in my change buckets before adding it to the tank. Thanks again for the advice.
-Tom
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Old 05-08-2004, 01:26 PM   #13
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To my knowledge, only Bio Spira has all the necessary bacteria (recently someone mentioned a product called Ready Start that is supposed to be as good, but I have never seen it, nor heard much about it). Other products lack certain bacteria (it's not just one bacteria type that you want to grow in your aquarium). Having said that, Bio Spira is not currently available because the supply did not meet the demand and the company is not releasing the product again until this fall. Up here in Canada, Bio Spira was never available and Cycle is the big thing, but it falls short.
As I continue to learn about keeping aquariums, the more I realize excess chemicals are not the way to go especially if they are not going to do the job.
Aside from Bio Spira, the best way to cycle a tank is to find someone with an established tank that can give you media, or a squeezing. It's easy to do, I had recently put some VERY established media (from a canister filter) in a bucket, swished it around and got a ton of bacteria off to give to someone to start a tank.
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Old 05-09-2004, 05:37 PM   #14
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jaysono as a newbie myself I have found tons of conflicting information as I attempt to gain an understanding of ny new found hobby. Its tuff to sort though. I have found people on this board to be very helpful and provide sound advice to my questions. It also helps to do your own reseach reading as much as you can on the subject. I have a technical background so I tend to want a scientific reason based on facts and not feelings or rumors. Have you tested your water straight from the tap to see what the natural PH and nitrate levels are? I believe to do this you should let it sit in a container for 24 hours then test. If your water is on the high sign for PH it would seem it would be easier to leave it alone and see if any of the more experienced people here have an idea how to lower it naturally though the use of an object that you can leave in the tank that has PH buffering properties. Good Luck
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Old 05-09-2004, 06:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
It also helps to do your own reseach reading as much as you can on the subject.
Highly recommended!
Quote:
Have you tested your water straight from the tap to see what the natural PH and nitrate levels are? I believe to do this you should let it sit in a container for 24 hours then test.
Even better if you can leave an air stone in there too! Also check for nitrites. There should not be an ammonia or nitrites in the tap water.
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Old 05-09-2004, 06:23 PM   #16
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You can also cycle using raw shrimp from your local grocery store...but you have to deal with stinky water for a little while. It worked like a charm on my 75 gal. I'd much rather go natural with things than use chemicals...especially when they don't tell you everything that's in them on the bottle. o.O
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Old 05-09-2004, 06:25 PM   #17
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Oh..and PS...to the one with the goldfish, don't do this method if you already have fish in your tank. I better add that. It's for a fishless cycle.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:54 PM   #18
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Even better if you can leave an air stone in there too! Also check for nitrites. There should not be an ammonia or nitrites in the tap water.[/quote]
Thanks Menagerie. I'll remember the airstone.
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Old 05-09-2004, 07:57 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Kerrinne
Oh..and PS...to the one with the goldfish, don't do this method if you already have fish in your tank. I better add that. It's for a fishless cycle.
Don't worry, I won't add raw shrimp! :P
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:46 AM   #20
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Thanks Fish_Doc and Menagerie....

Yeah, I'm glad I read your responses. After I added the Ammo-Lock as direceted (1 part for every 10 gal), I took another amonia test the following day, approx. 20 hours later.....and teh results were the same!!!

Yup, my reading was still .50ppm, so I was concerned I didn't add enough, so I double checked my measurements, and I was good. So needless to say it made me very confused and concerned.

Tonight, when I return home, I will do a partial water change using my siphon. I have a 16 gal, so I may try to do a gal a every other day thsi week. Saturday is the big sale day at my lfs, and I really want to make my tank as friendly as possible for a new Neon Dwarf G I'm gonna get since I don't have a qt tank.

Let me pose another question: I was looking at my bio-wheel filter instructions, and it said change the filter every 3-4 weeks. I'm at 4 weeks now with a new tank that may not be 100% cycled. Want to get a new fish this upcoming Saturday (6 days from now)...Should I change the filter, or plug away with the current filter until after the new fish arrives and the tank stabilizes?
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