Ammonia reduces pH??

[DerekInChandler]

As I continue being plagued by dangerously high ammonia levels for reasons I don't know why still.... now I'm battling pH that keeps dropping to 6.0 - 6.4, does my excessively high ammonia cauase this? I'm literally about to give up on this tank. Since my last post about my ammonia levels, I've done daily 50% water changes to where levels go to about 6.0ppm and within 12 hours well over 12.0 ppm.

 

[Potluck]

I don't know how to break this down for you but you might be able to understand the article and the relationship between ph and ammonia, ph can raise ammonia and ammonia can lower ph.

Are you using a liquid test kit, my ammonia only goes to 8 on the chart

http://pets.thenest.com/ph-cause-ammonia-aquarium-high-12118.html

 

[DerekInChandler]

I don't know how to break this down for you but you might be able to understand the article and the relationship between ph and ammonia, ph can raise ammonia and ammonia can lower ph.

Are you using a liquid test kit, my ammonia only goes to 8 on the chart

http://pets.thenest.com/ph-cause-ammonia-aquarium-high-12118.html

I will give this a read.
Thank you!

 

[Andy Sager]

Yes, ammonia is an acid so it makes the PH fall however, and this is the important part, when the PH falls to below 7.0, ammonia NH3 which is toxic to the fish, is converted to ammonium (NH4) and is much less toxic to the fish. So when you are raising the PH through water changes, you are actually doing more potential damage than if you let it be low.
Where this becomes a good situation is when you are doing a fish in cycling of a tank. The lower PH keeps the water safer for the fish until the nitrites play their roll. But by that time, ammonia has been converted and no longer a threat so doing water changes will not effect the ammonia and will reduce the level of nitrites in the tank making the tank safer for the fish.
Another acid that will reduce PH is nitrates. A tank with high nitrates usually also has a lower PH level and is one of the signs of "old tank syndrome". Not knowing whether you are dealing with a new tank or an old one and by the title of your thread, I am assuming it's a newer tank and it's not cycled yet. Correc t me if I'm wrong so I can better help you.

 

[DerekInChandler]

Yes, ammonia is an acid so it makes the PH fall however, and this is the important part, when the PH falls to below 7.0, ammonia NH3 which is toxic to the fish, is converted to ammonium (NH4) and is much less toxic to the fish. So when you are raising the PH through water changes, you are actually doing more potential damage than if you let it be low.
Where this becomes a good situation is when you are doing a fish in cycling of a tank. The lower PH keeps the water safer for the fish until the nitrites play their roll. But by that time, ammonia has been converted and no longer a threat so doing water changes will not effect the ammonia and will reduce the level of nitrites in the tank making the tank safer for the fish.
Another acid that will reduce PH is nitrates. A tank with high nitrates usually also has a lower PH level and is one of the signs of "old tank syndrome". Not knowing whether you are dealing with a new tank or an old one and by the title of your thread, I am assuming it's a newer tank and it's not cycled yet. Correc t me if I'm wrong so I can better help you.

new tank.
pretty sure I didn't do my start up correctly and added my fish when I thought it was good.

 

[Andy Sager]

new tank.
pretty sure I didn't do my start up correctly and added my fish when I thought it was good.

Okay. I found your other thread so I kinda got the bigger picture now and yes, there were a couple of mistakes in the beginning so you are basically starting with a new tank even tho it's with 5 week old cycled gravel.
There are a couple of things you can do which are a little extreme but very effective. 1 is to remove the fish from the tank into a temporary tank or container and just let the cycle happen itself. No water changes or feeding or anything. Just let the tank go it's natural way. You already have the ammonia of your entire stock in the tank so once the ammonia & nitrite levels return to 0, the tank will be cycled for that amount of load and so you can return your fish to the tank. In the "spare" tank, you will be doing more regular water changes so that the ammonia level does not climb at all keeping the water safe for the fish. That's one way.
Another is to get some live bacteria in a bottle ( People here seem to like Dr. Tim's but I have no first hand knowledge of it's efficiency) and start adding that as per the directions and this should speed up the cycling process so you can leave the fish in the tank. If you can get some more filter material from a cycled aquarium, it will do this same thing.

Another way is to keep going as you are going paying close attention to the PH and nitrite levels. As I said, a lower pH will convert the ammonia into ammonium which is much safer for the fish even at higher levels than ammonia is. Once the nitrites start to rise, you should start doing more regular water changes ( ie, every other day) and use PRIME as directed to detoxify the nitrites that remain after the water change. It will take a little while but the ammonia will go back down and the nitrites also will eventually go down to where you can go back to a regular weekly water change without having your levels change so abruptly.
The biggest thing to look for is to not let your PH rise if you have high ammonia in the tank with the fish still in it. It instantly is converted back to toxic ammonia once the PH rises too high and that can kill the fish.

Hope this helps.

 

[DerekInChandler]

Okay. I found your other thread so I kinda got the bigger picture now and yes, there were a couple of mistakes in the beginning so you are basically starting with a new tank even tho it's with 5 week old cycled gravel.
There are a couple of things you can do which are a little extreme but very effective. 1 is to remove the fish from the tank into a temporary tank or container and just let the cycle happen itself. No water changes or feeding or anything. Just let the tank go it's natural way. You already have the ammonia of your entire stock in the tank so once the ammonia & nitrite levels return to 0, the tank will be cycled for that amount of load and so you can return your fish to the tank. In the "spare" tank, you will be doing more regular water changes so that the ammonia level does not climb at all keeping the water safe for the fish. That's one way.
Another is to get some live bacteria in a bottle ( People here seem to like Dr. Tim's but I have no first hand knowledge of it's efficiency) and start adding that as per the directions and this should speed up the cycling process so you can leave the fish in the tank. If you can get some more filter material from a cycled aquarium, it will do this same thing.

Another way is to keep going as you are going paying close attention to the PH and nitrite levels. As I said, a lower pH will convert the ammonia into ammonium which is much safer for the fish even at higher levels than ammonia is. Once the nitrites start to rise, you should start doing more regular water changes ( ie, every other day) and use PRIME as directed to detoxify the nitrites that remain after the water change. It will take a little while but the ammonia will go back down and the nitrites also will eventually go down to where you can go back to a regular weekly water change without having your levels change so abruptly.
The biggest thing to look for is to not let your PH rise if you have high ammonia in the tank with the fish still in it. It instantly is converted back to toxic ammonia once the PH rises too high and that can kill the fish.

Hope this helps.

awesome help! will get started on that advice!