Angelfish Kissing, OR determining dominance or a possible mate??

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amyb_70

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Please help... I am really confused, I have read, watched videos, read more and still unsure. I went to turn the light on to the angel fish tank to find them "kissing", I realize they were not kissing and I am assuming they were determining who is more dominant but how do i know for sure? First I will give an uneducated guess that they are between 6-9 months old, by the size, amount of time I've had them and the size they were when i got them. One is a solid black angel and the other is a silver tone with black stripes (forget the real name). anyway i am thinking i have 2 males (again uneducated guess, because their bodies are shaped so much alike). the striped angel has bullied the other fish in the tank which are platys, he does not bother the corys or even the bumblebee gobies. Today when the tank was dark the black angel was lip-locked with the striped with the other angel. when i first saw they were in the center area of the tank "kissing" and the black guy "kissed" the stripped one all the way to the end into the corner, as i turned the light on... i fed them as normal. the black guy swam off and waited a little bit before eating. Like i said i am basing the sex, age and the fighting all on uneducated guesses here, so I would really like some answers that are factual -- Andy are you here? LOL.....Note the tank is only a 29 gal so it is only stocked with the 2 angels, 3 platy, 2 BB goby (i know i am lucky but the angels do not bother them at all), 5 cory (albino), and 6 beautiful otto's... please id appreciate any input or advice you have on any of what i have said in this post tonight. weather it pertains to the angels or you want to tell me I'm coo-coo for having the gobies in with the angels... but i would really appreciate some answers.. If you have any knowledge please dont read and bypass this without leaving a comment. if you dont know about angels please let me know that somewhere in your comment. I know some people here are avid on Angels mainly and others are pretty much knowledgeable on many kinds. So i am game for all kinds of thoughts.. thanks
 
Can you take a video of them doing their display? From the description it sounds like you have two males fighting over territory, but it's hard to say for sure without video.

The key difference between pairing behavior vs territorial is whether you see a lot of biting outside of the "kissing". If one is clearly the dominant one and chasing the other all over the place, and if you see it going for body or fin bites in addition to the lip-locking, that's definitely not pairing/mating behavior.
 
Can you take a video of them doing their display? From the description it sounds like you have two males fighting over territory, but it's hard to say for sure without video.

The key difference between pairing behavior vs territorial is whether you see a lot of biting outside of the "kissing". If one is clearly the dominant one and chasing the other all over the place, and if you see it going for body or fin bites in addition to the lip-locking, that's definitely not pairing/mating behavior.


I wish I could have taken a video. It was truly an amazing site, I would have watched much longer to see what happened as the day went on but was heading out to take my girl to school and me to work. The odd thing is I've never seen tension, for a lack of better words between them. The striped one occasionally will pick on a platy, the black one I've never seen bother any others in the tank. The kicker is the 2 hang out together almost all day every day. When I do WC omg they won't leave each others side. Although it's only a 29 gal it seemed like a long hard kiss. Haha sounds kinda funny


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Hmmm, hard to say then. It sounds more like pairing behavior when you describe it that way, but I can't say for certain without video. It's still possible that it was a single dominance spat between two males. Without a female to actually fight over, some angel males will be content to leave the subordinate male alone once the pecking order is established. Depends on the fish personalities.

Either way, just keep an eye on them. If it looks like one is getting beat up you'll want to rehome it. Otherwise, they should be content with the status quo, whether thats as a bonded M/F pair or just a pair of friends.
 
I think I need to have a signal, like Batman had, so I know to look for Angelfish threads. :ROFLMAO:

I would check out these videos to compare. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f82/angelfish-mating-ritual-318326-3.html#post3038223

They are excellent vids for seeing the difference between fighting and pairing.
That being said, usually, when no females are present, males won't lip lock for supremacy, they will bite the lesser fish and usually not on the face but the fins, tail and body. If the lipping continues, and you see the 2 fish start chasing fish away from a particular spot, be prepared for eggs.

Hope this helps. (y)
 
I think I need to have a signal, like Batman had, so I know to look for Angelfish threads. :ROFLMAO:

I would check out these videos to compare. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f82/angelfish-mating-ritual-318326-3.html#post3038223

They are excellent vids for seeing the difference between fighting and pairing.
That being said, usually, when no females are present, males won't lip lock for supremacy, they will bite the lesser fish and usually not on the face but the fins, tail and body. If the lipping continues, and you see the 2 fish start chasing fish away from a particular spot, be prepared for eggs.

Hope this helps. (y)


HahaHa Andy, you do need radar especially after the wigglers thread came back to life. Those are one of the videos I watched. It made sense with the music but I watched again on mute and honestly I could not tell the difference. I've never seen them even come close to nipping at each other. I have 2 bumbleebee gobies in there and they don't bother them. The striped angel only goes after 1 platy once in a while. I will watch videos and pause them a bit when the little one goes to bed. I'll study them. I have read the entire thread on wigglers. People think it's long but it's quick and easy reading, especially if someone wants to learn. I'll reread and save it if I find eggs. I found it that educational.


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If I only knew how to tell the sex. Humm -- scratching my head


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It takes time, experience and a trained eye to be more than 50% right when sexing Angels that haven't spawned yet. (Some people don;t even get it after they spawn. ) In the old, less politically correct days, the expression was to " shake them, if one rattles, it's a male. ;) lol ( And PLEASE!!! no comments on how wrong that is. As I said, it was back in the old days. It just showed how difficult it is to sex certain fish.) (y)
 
Lol, ok if people really did that wow... Doesnt the female get larger if she's holding eggs? How long do they hold and this may be dumb but does she push them out? You know the traditional way people do. I know nothing. Probably jumping to far ahead. Idk what the eggs look like or what to watch for. I have lots of reading to do.


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I know it's a joke, but I'm not sure how a male would "rattle" any more than a female anyways ;)


I suppose because females have more upstairs, hence less wasted space to rattle things. Kidding no offense guys.


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I think I need to have a signal, like Batman had, so I know to look for Angelfish threads. :ROFLMAO:

I would check out these videos to compare. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f82/angelfish-mating-ritual-318326-3.html#post3038223

They are excellent vids for seeing the difference between fighting and pairing.
That being said, usually, when no females are present, males won't lip lock for supremacy, they will bite the lesser fish and usually not on the face but the fins, tail and body. If the lipping continues, and you see the 2 fish start chasing fish away from a particular spot, be prepared for eggs.

Hope this helps. (y)


Ok Andy, I watched the videos w/o sound and paid much closer attention. What I did see was brief, more like the 1st video with the marble angels at one point they were literally mouth to mouth. That's how mine were. What I noticed in the 2nd video that I didn't before was the angel on the left was using his fins as if to say "put up your dukes, boy". There was also a lot more quick jerking kind of movement in the 2nd, which I didn't notice in the 1st video. So I'm not sure where this leaves me but I'm hoping you folks are able and willing to guide me if she's holding eggs.


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Ok Andy, I watched the videos w/o sound and paid much closer attention. What I did see was brief, more like the 1st video with the marble angels at one point they were literally mouth to mouth. That's how mine were. What I noticed in the 2nd video that I didn't before was the angel on the left was using his fins as if to say "put up your dukes, boy". There was also a lot more quick jerking kind of movement in the 2nd, which I didn't notice in the 1st video. So I'm not sure where this leaves me but I'm hoping you folks are able and willing to guide me if she's holding eggs.


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Jerky twitchy is usually fighting, lip locking is usually mating. Not always, but usually. ( Some fish don;t read the books :facepalm: )
As for where this leaves you, it's a choice for you. If you want to breed them, you will need to let them have at it. If they switch from breeding behavior to fighting behavior, you will need to separate them or risk one injuring the other. If you don;t want to chance damages to your fish, you will need to separate them. Your choice.

Something I've said before but I think it needs repeating: Angelfish are Cichlids and as such, can get pretty aggressive when mating. Many times, Breeding pairs of Angelfish become disfigured or maimed or not "pretty to look at." This is the chance you take when breeding these fish. Recently, when I went to my buddy's to get my fish, he showed me 2 beautiful Black Veil Angels that both were blinded by the 2 males he wanted them to breed with. His only hope is that somehow they regain some sight or become willing to spawn via direction from the males. So this is the chances you take. :huh:
 
Ok. Is this a long term process, the fighting part of spawning? I hate the thought of getting rid if either one. What would you suggest


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Ok. Is this a long term process, the fighting part of spawning? I hate the thought of getting rid if either one. What would you suggest


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The pre-spawning "dance" can go on for days or can be very short. It's up to the fish to decide.
As for what do I suggest?, I can't answer that for you. It's up to you. I gave you the 3 options that will happen. You need to decide which one you are comfortable with and/or willing to accept the results. (y)
 
Thank you Andy. I think for the time I'm going to see what happens. No point in getting my panties all twisted over something that I've seen 1 time over months. I'll just be more aware and keep an extra watch of what's going on.


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OMG HELP -- Knock Knock anyone Home

OMG please help!!!! Andy, I am knocking on your door, do you hear me..????? I have this white fuzzy stuff in my java moss it was NOT there this morning. i have no clue what the eggs look like after being released. I know nothing, execpt that I am totally freaking out and take back just chill and let nature take its course.what if they are eggs and i dont know... OMG i am sounding like such an idiot here. i did a count and all critters are accounted for, so its not a dead fish. I did a 50% + WC last night and stirred up the gravel to get some extra debris or poo out... and that fuzz was so not there when i left at 8:30 this morning and now 5 hours later there it is.... OMG idk what to do.... i would have just scooped it thinking it was fuzz but now i dont know cuz it sounded to me like you thought there was a chance they could have been doing the mating dance... please help me. I am not a paid member here so i cant add a pic of it.. i can try through tiny pic and see if it links it....
knock knock is anyone home??????
 
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