Another not-cycling post

[vinlyn]

14 or more weeks ago I started a new tank (33 gallons). Yes, I made the "mistake" of doing it with fish. Cycling just didn't happen. I had an outbreak of white spot disease and had to treat the tank for that, and all seems to be back to normal but no cycling.

Since then I have started 2 other tanks...they have been going for about 6 and 8 weeks, also with a small load of fish. Again, no cycling.

I did start all 3 tanks with Tetra Safe Start.

In the oldest tanks I now have 5 blood fin tetras, 5 glow light tetras, 2 cory cats, and 4 oto algae eaters. I had more in it before the white spot, but lost about 40% during that epidemic. All were tetras except for the cats and otos.

In the 8 week tank I have 2 swordtails, 4 danios, 2 cory cats, and 2 oto algae eaters.

In the 6 week tank I have 5 red minor serpae tetras , 2 cory cats, and 2 oto algae eaters.

I am using Eheim canister filters in each tank.

Cycle-wise, nothing seems to be happening in any of the tanks. I change a gallon of water in each tank each day. All the fish seem to currently be very healthy and active.

My daily test readings are boringly consistent:

Ph = 7.8 or slightly lower. Ammonia = 0 - .20, but usually about .10 or .15. My nitrites and nitrates are always 0.

I've read tons of info on how to cycle a tank, but now I am at a loss, particularly with the 14+ week old tank.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[SonicsDC25]

What is the temperature in your tank? I know that in fishless cycles, the darker your tank is, the better. I'm not sure if this holds true for fish-in cycles, so I'll let someone else chime in on that. You seem to be doing everything right, although should just make sure that your Ammonia never reaches 0. Fish-in cycle takes a lot longer than fishless cycle, so patience and time are your primary enemies If you have difficulties in the future and all your tank residents pass on, I'd suggest a fishless cycle since it'll be a lot quicker and less maintenance.

 

[vinlyn]

Thanks for replying. That was one thing that I had not read before -- that fish-in cycles actually take longer.

The tanks vary from 76-80.

 

[SonicsDC25]

If you can keep it at a steady 80, it'd be better since your fish will be able to tolerate it for quite a while and the beneficial bacteria thrives in higher temperatures (85-87 is the ideal point w/o fish). And yeah the higher amount of ammonia helps in the cycle, however that isn't possible with fish-in cycles since your fish would probably be dead at those amounts. Check out this guide if you plan on going fishless: Tips and Tricks For Your Fastest Fishless Cycle! - Aquarium Advice

 

[absolutangel04]

In case you have not read them, here are a couple of articles about fish-in cycling:
Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side - Aquarium Advice
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
Yeah, generally speaking, fishless does take less time. However, it is not necessraily better. I have done fish-in cycles on every tank I have ever had and never had an issue.
First question, what kind of test kit are you using?

 

[vinlyn]

In case you have not read them, here are a couple of articles about fish-in cycling:
Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side - Aquarium Advice
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
Yeah, generally speaking, fishless does take less time. However, it is not necessraily better. I have done fish-in cycles on every tank I have ever had and never had an issue.
First question, what kind of test kit are you using?

I am using the API test kit.

 

[Mebbid]

It sounds like there are a few things going on here.

First: The ammonia kit - They can often give false positives on ammonia readings. a .25 ppm ammonia which is the lowest an API kit will read is am absolutely miniscule amount and some kits will give back a positive reading when there is actually no ammonia in the water (there will always be trace amounts)

Second: The nitrate kit. I am suspecting that you are improperly performing the test. It's the most commonly done thing with regards to mistakes in water testing out there.

1 - Obtain the 5ml of water.
2 - Add 10 drops from bottle 1
3 - Cap the test tube and shake for 5 seconds.
4 - Shake bottle 2 VIGOROUSLY for 30 seconds because there are reagents in the bottle that need to be properly mixed.
5 - Add 10 drops of bottle 2 to the test tube
6 - Cap the tube and shake VIGOROUSLY for a full minute.
7 - Wait 5 minutes and take the reading

If there are no nitrates at that point then I would suggest taking a sample into your LFS and see if they get the same results.

After that we can look at other possible problems.

 

[vinlyn]

It sounds like there are a few things going on here.

First: The ammonia kit - They can often give false positives on ammonia readings. a .25 ppm ammonia which is the lowest an API kit will read is am absolutely miniscule amount and some kits will give back a positive reading when there is actually no ammonia in the water (there will always be trace amounts)

Second: The nitrate kit. I am suspecting that you are improperly performing the test. It's the most commonly done thing with regards to mistakes in water testing out there.

1 - Obtain the 5ml of water.
2 - Add 10 drops from bottle 1
3 - Cap the test tube and shake for 5 seconds.
4 - Shake bottle 2 VIGOROUSLY for 30 seconds because there are reagents in the bottle that need to be properly mixed.
5 - Add 10 drops of bottle 2 to the test tube
6 - Cap the tube and shake VIGOROUSLY for a full minute.
7 - Wait 5 minutes and take the reading

If there are no nitrates at that point then I would suggest taking a sample into your LFS and see if they get the same results.

After that we can look at other possible problems.

I will try that today.

BTW, I have found that my water out of the tap seems to consistently have a reading of about .10.

 

[vinlyn]

Mebbid, I followed your instructions to the letter. No significant change.

 

[absolutangel04]

It was a good suggestion to check for the "vigorous" shaking. That is a common error with the API kit. I am also glad you are using a liquid test kit instead of strips. I am unimpressed with the strips supposed accuracy in many cases.
So, I am not entirely sure what to tell you. After 14 weeks, I would assume that a cycle has happened, but you really ought to get at least some reading of nitrates in that case. So, I guess there is a chance you got a bad test kit? Have you considered taking a water sample into a store for testing to see if you get the same results? Also, another option is that constant water changes have stalled the cycle form happening? I don't think that is likely, but I am a little baffled here and just blurting out ideas. Maybe try not changing out water everyday like you said you have been doing and wait a few days and watch the readings for a change. You can build up a bit of ammonia with no long term damage to the fish. I can link you an ammonia toxicity chart if you are worried, but I suggest seeing if anything builds up at all after a few days. My next idea is that maybe Safe Start worked for you and you are not seeing ammonia because you are doing pwc to keep the levels in check and the BB is actually doing it's job of converting ammonia. I am not a fan of Safe Start, and I don't think it generally works. But, I know of a few times where people seem to have had success with it, so maybe you are one of those times?

 

[vinlyn]

It was a good suggestion to check for the "vigorous" shaking. That is a common error with the API kit. I am also glad you are using a liquid test kit instead of strips. I am unimpressed with the strips supposed accuracy in many cases.
So, I am not entirely sure what to tell you. After 14 weeks, I would assume that a cycle has happened, but you really ought to get at least some reading of nitrates in that case. So, I guess there is a chance you got a bad test kit? Have you considered taking a water sample into a store for testing to see if you get the same results? Also, another option is that constant water changes have stalled the cycle form happening? I don't think that is likely, but I am a little baffled here and just blurting out ideas. Maybe try not changing out water everyday like you said you have been doing and wait a few days and watch the readings for a change. You can build up a bit of ammonia with no long term damage to the fish. I can link you an ammonia toxicity chart if you are worried, but I suggest seeing if anything builds up at all after a few days. My next idea is that maybe Safe Start worked for you and you are not seeing ammonia because you are doing pwc to keep the levels in check and the BB is actually doing it's job of converting ammonia. I am not a fan of Safe Start, and I don't think it generally works. But, I know of a few times where people seem to have had success with it, so maybe you are one of those times?

Thank you for responding.

I am actually on my second test kit, so it's not a question of a faulty kit.

Maybe I will try your suggestion of letting things go completely for a few days, while watching the ammonia level. One person did say to me that perhaps I just have extremely clean tanks.

I should have mentioned previously that each of my tanks is planted...not densely, but planted.

 

[enrgizerbunny]

What are you using for a dechlorinator during water changes and how are you performing them?

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[vinlyn]

What are you using for a dechlorinator during water changes and how are you performing them?

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

I am using Aqueon Water Conditioner.

Not sure what you mean by how I am performing water changes. I set the water aside 24 hours in advance to it is at room temperature -- treated at that time. Then I cup out a gallon (up to 3 gallons if I want to do other tank cleaning) and pour the new water in.

Thank you for responding.

 

[Mebbid]

It's entirely possible that you are pulling all the nitrates out with water changes. I agree with letting things go for a few days. Just be sure to keep an eye on ammonia and nitrites though.

 

[vinlyn]

So now I am more confused. Quickly, tank #3 show no sign of cycling...but maybe that's okay since it's been up and running for the shortest time. Tank #2...well, something is happening. Ph = 7.8. Ammonia = .15. Nitrites = 0. Nitrates = 1 (definitely not 0 anymore)

But my main interest here is Tank # 1 -- the one that has been up and running for something like 14 weeks -- I think it's cycling. I cut down on my daily water changes over the past several days, as we discussed. Today, finally a significant change in the water data. Ph = 7.8 (as usual). Ammonia = .20 (sort of typical). Nitrites = 0 (as always). Nitrates = 5 (the first time they have ever been at anything but 0). But I have never seen a nitrite spike at all. How fast can such a spike happen and then go back down?

Where do you think I am?

 

[ralfieboy]

So now I am more confused. Quickly, tank #3 show no sign of cycling...but maybe that's okay since it's been up and running for the shortest time. Tank #2...well, something is happening. Ph = 7.8. Ammonia = .15. Nitrites = 0. Nitrates = 1 (definitely not 0 anymore)

But my main interest here is Tank # 1 -- the one that has been up and running for something like 14 weeks -- I think it's cycling. I cut down on my daily water changes over the past several days, as we discussed. Today, finally a significant change in the water data. Ph = 7.8 (as usual). Ammonia = .20 (sort of typical). Nitrites = 0 (as always). Nitrates = 5 (the first time they have ever been at anything but 0). But I have never seen a nitrite spike at all. How fast can such a spike happen and then go back down?

Where do you think I am?

The live plants may have helped. Is the temperature in he bucket the same as the aquarium? Are you using aquarium water to clean the filters or tap water. Are the fosh happy and eating?

 

[vinlyn]

The live plants may have helped. Is the temperature in he bucket the same as the aquarium? Are you using aquarium water to clean the filters or tap water. Are the fosh happy and eating?

Yes, the water temperatures are pretty much the same.

I was told not to clean the Eheim filters for at least 3 months, or longer.

Yes, fish seem happy, active. eating well.

 

[ralfieboy]

As far as I am concerned enjoy the hobby and stop stressing about the cycling. You are fine. Yes the Eheim do not need to be cleaned on a regular basis. The water flow will tell you when they need to be cleaned. Put your finger on one of the return valves and check the flow every now and then.

Good luck

 

[gilpi]

As far as I am concerned enjoy the hobby and stop stressing about the cycling. You are fine. Yes the Eheim do not need to be cleaned on a regular basis. The water flow will tell you when they need to be cleaned. Put your finger on one of the return valves and check the flow every now and then.

Good luck

+1 Can't get any simpler than this!!!!

 

[vinlyn]

Just an update.

Finally, after all these weeks my tanks have cycled. I never did see a nitrite spike...or any nitrites at all. But I do not have nitrates, and my ammonia levels seem to have leveled out at .15. So I guess the cycling has occurred.

Thanks to those of you who posted advice to me over this!