Apple snail killer??

[jsoong]

Over the last 3 weeks I've lost all 5 of my apple snails, plus 4 egg clutches (hatched 3-6 weeks ago) with no obvious survivor (I am hoping that there may be babies hiding in the gravel, but I doubt it).

I've had the snails for 6-9 months, they are about 1-1.5" in size. All were acting normally, then all of a sudden, inactivity, followed a couple days later with obvious signs of death.

There is no obvious problems with the fish.

Tank params had been stable, temp 75, pH 7.8, NH3/NO2 0/0. We have medium hard water (KH/GH in 150-180 ppm range).

The only thing new I am doing to the tank is adding Flourish Excel (at about 1/2 to 3/4 the recommended dose due to presence of some vals). With the addition of the Excel, I've also increased the plant fertilizer dose to maintain NO3 level at around 10.

Before I started Excel, I emailed Seachem & they assured me that it is fine with snails & inverts. I don't think the increasing ferts is the problem. The only ingredients that may be toxic is copper. Before I was dosing at 0.0008 ppm/week, now it is 0.0016 ppm (this is about 1/2 the copper levels in PMDD schedule). <Also, all the trace ferts are chelated.>

I quite enjoyed the snails, but I am loath to get more until I can be sure I am not killing them.

Any thouhgts?

[joannde]

Its definitely not the Excel as I use it daily also with my 20+ snails with no ill effects.
I'm not sure its the copper either (assumng its chelated and that you're using a dechlorinator that binds heavy metals).
Wish I could help more
www.Applesnail.net has a discussion forum - you might want to sign up and post there since there are many snail experts you can tap into

[courtnee]

I have read tons on snails due to owning one. I have read many times over that even the smallest doses of copper is deadly to snails. They can not tolerate copper. That is how many people control snail infestations.

I am assuming since your tank levels are all wonderful, the fish are good and it only took out the snails it is the copper. Copper will take out the snails at very low doses and before it bothers the fish. Many sites say that very low levels and even below 1 ppm is enough to take out a snail.

I know my LFS told me to stay clear of copper all together since I have a snail.

There has even been talk about when the PH changes slightly or the temp raises slightly it makes the copper even more lethal.

Again I am a newbie.

[joannde]

I did a search on the discussion board on applesnail.net and the advice there was that chelated copper is actually ok and so is Flourish Trace which contains copper, so I'm not sure its the copper in this case.

My only other thought is that there wasn't enough food for the snails - I've read that the most common cause of death among mystery snails is starvation.

[Cinder]

I too lost our Apple snail mysteriously. I don't use anything with copper so I know that wasn't it for me. I did, however, have a huge spike in phosphates (we are on well water and sometimes that happens) the week that she died. I am curious if that is what killed her?

[jsoong]

I have thought of the starvation issue as well. My tank has enough algae that they should at least be surviving ... and since the females were producing eggs, they should be reasonably well fed. <I feed sinking goldies pellets & there is always some that got stuck in the gravel where the goldies can't get at.> After losing the first one, I have made a point of putting a few pellets right next to the snails so they would have first dips, although I have not actually stay around & watch the snails eat.

From what I've read, the amout of copper in trace mix is low enough to be safe (the max that I can get in the tank is 0.002 ppm, assuming no plant uptake). Although I would love to have someone dosing EI to confirm that in their setup.

[lovemybarbs]

And the loaches don't bother them?

[hc8719]

i thought LWB had problems with excel, all his fish were gasping for air. how much are you adding?

[joannde]

Per the first post, he's using 1/2 to 3/4 of the recommended dose of Excel, so that's not the issue.
If you want responses from folks doing EI dosing you might want to start a new post in the planted tanks forum with the title "EI dosing and apple snails" and see if you can find someone there.
The other alternative, which I highly recommend, is joining the discussions board at applesnails.net - they'll definitely know the answer

[jsoong]

Originally Posted by lovemybarbs

And the loaches don't bother them?

I have hillstream loaches, they don't bother snails like the "tropicals".

[Blazeherd2306]

I was going to say loaches too, but then I saw they were hillstreams, and I thought: well that would be weird if hillstreams ate snails. They don't seem to be designed to eat snails haha.

Apple snails eat ALOT . It's nonstop with them. Maybe they just didn't have enough algae to eat?