Aquarium rock question

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MonkeyMonk86

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I bought a rock from LFS. It looks similar to Pagoda rock. It did not fizz with vinegar pored on several spots. I cleaned it with water and a small bristle brush then I submerged it in hydrogen peroxide to sterilize it and get any remaining dust off. It's been bubbling for about 40 minutes in the H2O2. More at first, less now. Is that of any significance? I've been googling and can't find anything relevant.
ImageUploadedByAquarium Advice1397015158.586013.jpgImageUploadedByAquarium Advice1397015199.519507.jpg
 
This is interesting, I did some reading, add acid to a rock it fizzes if it's an alkaline rock, add a base solution to a rock it fizzes if it's acidic rock. Rocks with no reaction are inert.

"The composition of igneous rocks falls into four main categories. They are determined by the amount of silica that the rocks contain. The four categories are acidic, intermediate, basic, and ultramafic. Acidic rocks have a high silica content (65% or more) along with a relatively high amount of sodium and potassium. These rocks are composed of the minerals quartz and feldspar. Rhyolite and granite are the two most common types of acidic rock.
Intermediate rocks contain between 53% and 65% silica. They also contain potassium and plagioclase feldspar with a small amount of quartz. Diorite and Andesite are the two most common types of intermediate rock.
Basic rocks are composed of less than 52% silica and a large amount of plagioclase feldspar and very rarely quartz. The two most common types of basic rocks are basalts and gabbros.
Ultrabasic rocks are composed of less than 45% silica and contain no quartz or feldspar. They are composed mainly of the minerals olivine and pyroxene. The most common ultrabasic rock is periodite. Periodite is a dark green, coarse-grained igneous rock that many scientists believe is the main rock of the mantle."

"Sedimentary rock is one of the three main rock groups (along with igneous and metamorphic rocks) and is formed in four main ways: by the deposition of the weathered remains of other rocks (known as 'clastic' sedimentary rocks); by the accumulation and the consolidation of sediments; by the deposition of the results of biogenic activity; and by precipitation from solution.
Sedimentary rocks include common types such as chalk, limestone, sandstone, clay and shale.
Sedimentary rocks cover 75% of the Earth's surface.
Four basic processes are involved in the formation of a clastic sedimentary rock: weathering (erosion)caused mainly by friction of waves, transportation where the sediment is carried along by a current, deposition and compaction where the sediment is squashed together to form a rock of this kind.
Sedimentary rocks are formed from overburden pressure as particles of sediment are deposited out of air, ice, or water flows carrying the particles in suspension.
As sediment deposition builds up, the overburden (or 'lithostatic') pressure squeezes the sediment into layered solids in a process known as lithification ('rock formation') and the original connate fluids are expelled.
The term diagenesis is used to describe all the chemical, physical, and biological changes, including cementation, undergone by a sediment after its initial deposition and during and after its lithification, exclusive of surface weathering."

"Metamorphic rocks are created by the physical or chemical alteration by heat and pressure of an existing igneous or sedimentary material into a denser form. Due to the action of plate tectonics, compression, stress and shearing forces over long periods of time, rocks can be essentially warped and deformed, causing them to be compacted into a smaller volume of space. As a consequence, metamorphic rocks are always more dense than their original material, and also much less susceptible to erosional breakdown. As the Earth's plates move over geologic time, a plate containing igneous or sedimentary rock may become subducted under another plate. The sheer weight of the material above it can cause the rock to undergo metamorphism. In some cases, heat from the Earth's interior can melt the rock slightly, in a process termed "contact metamorphism." Examples of metamorphic rocks are schist (converted basalt), quartzite (compressed sandstone), and marble (compressed limestone or dolomite)."

Really a geologist may be more useful to you than a decorator who dabbles with water! So there are a whole host of pictures of rocks available!

(Apologies for the late reply)

I had fun with this one!
 
I bought a rock from LFS. It looks similar to Pagoda rock. It did not fizz with vinegar pored on several spots. I cleaned it with water and a small bristle brush then I submerged it in hydrogen peroxide to sterilize it and get any remaining dust off. It's been bubbling for about 40 minutes in the H2O2. More at first, less now. Is that of any significance? I've been googling and can't find anything relevant.
View attachment 232430View attachment 232431

Ooohhh! Off to try that - I've never heard of it.

I'm hopeless at it but it does look like it could be a carbonate rock. Very fine grained so not impossible. If you have it out of the tank, can you scratch it with a paper clip (just if you do).

Vinegar is a pretty weak acid unfortunately. If it is magnesite or dolomite then it may only react very slowly with vinegar. We used to use 10% HCl acid and it was pretty slow to react. Calcite is one carbonate which is fairly common and will react with vinegar.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any other rock that will react with H2O2 and bubble.
 
organic matter or manganese can do that with h2o2...my first thought is some type of gneiss
 
Jamie, Delapool and Aldeub, thank you for the responses. I was able to locate another LFS selling the same type rock as Pagoda rock and aquarium safe. I'm going to test my water (which should be 8.2) and soak the rock for 24, then 48 hrs and test the water after each 24 hr interval.

Pagoda rock doesn't have much wiki out there. But, I'm better armed to understand what is out there with Jamie's post. Again, my thanks!!!

Aldeub, thanks for the info on 2 items that react with H2O2.
 
What was the concentration you were using of h2o2? Were you soaking or boiling can I ask?

I tried it with cuttlebone which reacted with the vinegar but not the h2o2. So kind of stumped.

Edit - was there any smell eg sulphur?
 
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organic matter or manganese can do that with h2o2...my first thought is some type of gneiss


Pretty intrigued with it now - thoughts appreciated.

Manganese bearing should be pretty heavy so that would be one check.

To me it looks a pretty solid piece of rock. It's not coal, hmmm - was the bubbling coming from the lighter or darker bands at all OP? Darker bands could have organics but to get to bubble??

So we can cross off igneous and its sedimentary or metamorphic?
 
What was the concentration you were using of h2o2? Were you soaking or boiling can I ask?

I tried it with cuttlebone which reacted with the vinegar but not the h2o2. So kind of stumped.

Edit - was there any smell eg sulphur?


cuttle bone is a shell...it reacted with the acid (vinegar) as it should...had it reacted with the h202 i would be surprised...
 
It was soaked/submerged in 3% H2o2 at room temp.

I now have it submerged in Prime conditioned water as of 12:05pm
pH 7.4 (baseline prior to submerging in water)

Thank you all for posting, I'm going to the cited resource next.

After my pH test has finished. I'll drop the h2o2 on the rock and see which bands are foaming.

I read the article and then looked up limestone and found this article on rocks:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php

This is what I found b4 LFS purchase saying pH neutral and safe. Found it sold in 25# minimum amounts at lots of aquarium rock places. Now, have seen it locally at 2 places. I'm really starting to think LFS and the dealers are NOT investigative enough.
http://www.secondnatureaquariums.co...cks-c-84_18_96/pagoda-rock-1520cm-p-1962.html

Time permitting. I think I'll try calling a university geology department.

Anyone know how I can get just a few drops of HCl??? After pH soak test. That's next.

I know I can get acid at hardware store but that acid will ruin the rock and I'll never be able to use it.

The rock was $17.00. Ugh!!!
 
Interesting, pagoda rock sounds like it could be a limestone then with the rock name taken from the formation name. Could that be possible? (After reading article).
 
organic matter or manganese can do that with h2o2...my first thought is some type of gneiss

Gneiss was mentioned in one of the articles I drew that "document" from.
I really don't know anything about rocks other than the bigger they get the heavier they get and your foot will hurt if you drop a big heavy rock on it.

B, it is really quite interesting this thread, I must confess I don't know all that stuff. It was a nice sideline to the current activities I am undertaking. Something else to learn about. I'm not sure I know any geologists here, everybody seems to be into fish! Good bunch of info though.

I'm interested now, I want to see what happens!

(I think maybe aldeub may know more!)
 
you can get hcl as muriatic acid at any place that sells pool supplies...dilute it way down...10% or so...
 
It will be interesting to see what happens. Or the university may know.

It doesn't look like a gneiss to me. Doesn't look cooked enough and the banding doesn't look right. I even dug a gneiss out of my first year rock collection. Happy to be corrected - most gneiss I have seen is more coarse grained.

Gneiss - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sticking with a carbonate rock. However why that rock would react if it was (lets say it is calcite or dolomite - calcium or magnesium carbonate) and the cuttlebone didn't (calcite/argonite - calcium carbonate) is still a puzzle. Since water is at 7.4 that can't be doing it.

Edit - also if you get acid, take care with it.
 
I get the same bubbling reaction whenever Im spot treating algae with 3% H2O2. Than algae and anything else in the area (usually driftwood) will fizz for quite a while. Probably just a reaction to something organic, like microbes or bacteria. Much the way it fizzes when it makes contact with your skin. I never really thought much about it and have not had any sick or dead fish as a result... though I do make sure to turn my filter off while treatment is in progress, and to do a large PWC afterwards.

Monkey: Did you get that rock from Aquarium Adventures in the Schaumburg/Hoffman Estates area? You mentioned in another thread that you live near O'Hare, so Im just taking a guess (since there arent that many specialty LFS in the area and I know for a fact that they sell that type of rock).
At any rate, Ive purchased several of the same type of rock. It never occurred to me to dip them in H2O2, so I couldnt say if they fizzed or not. They havent affected my pH, but I have really Hard water so its rare that anything does.

I know this doesnt exactly answer your question about WHY they are reacting to the H2O2, but hopefully it will relieve your fears about whether or not it is aquarium safe.
 
No, I got it at Coral Reef on Lawrence and I saw another box of them, looked just like mine at The Animal Store on Touhy in Lincolnwood.

The pagoda rocks are beautiful. I'm curious now too to find out if all layers bubble or if only certain layers bubble.

Was reading today about someone who unknowingly used a rock with arsenic in it and not only did his fish die but his tank was ruined b/c arsenic must have gotten into his silicone or whatever.

So, I was reading about arsenic and I guess it is pretty much in all rocks at low levels.

http://www.otago.ac.nz/geology/research/environmental_geology/metals/arsenic.html
Midpage: "All rocks contain some arsenic, typically 1-5 ppm. Higher concentrations are found in some igneous and sedimentary rocks"

That 1st pic on the gneiss wiki page looks real close to the one I got. Just checked and got an email for U of I. The U of Chicago is looking for geology professors, so I guess I'll try an email to U of I.
 
No, it was clean. But, was very dusty. After I vinegar tested it. I rinsed it and couldn't seem to get all the dust off even with a aquarium designated hairbrush. So, I used 2 bottles of peroxide and made a bath for the rock. It did come out without the dust after, but it must have bubbled for hours. I think I left it in that whole 1st night. I might have taken it out at bedtime. I can't remember.

I'll be doing a pH in the morning. And, maybe try typing a notepad of what I want to put in the email. I think I can scrape off some sample rock for them... Stuff like that.

U of Connecticut only charged me $10 to ID a tick that bit me. It was not a Lyme carrying type, but if it was, the the cost to test the tick was around maybe $100.

And, as a kid my dad submitted a bug to U of I that was not a termite but was eating our wood. They even advised him what to paint on the wood to kill whatever bug it was.

So, I'm really hoping I get lucky with an email.
 
No, it was clean. But, was very dusty. After I vinegar tested it. I rinsed it and couldn't seem to get all the dust off even with a aquarium designated hairbrush. So, I used 2 bottles of peroxide and made a bath for the rock. It did come out without the dust after, but it must have bubbled for hours. I think I left it in that whole 1st night. I might have taken it out at bedtime. I can't remember.

I'll be doing a pH in the morning. And, maybe try typing a notepad of what I want to put in the email. I think I can scrape off some sample rock for them... Stuff like that.

U of Connecticut only charged me $10 to ID a tick that bit me. It was not a Lyme carrying type, but if it was, the the cost to test the tick was around maybe $100.

And, as a kid my dad submitted a bug to U of I that was not a termite but was eating our wood. They even advised him what to paint on the wood to kill whatever bug it was.

So, I'm really hoping I get lucky with an email.


I wonder if it was the dust reacting then?
 
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