Big, weekly water changes. Good idea or not?

[Caliban07]

Another thing to keep in mind beyond the whole bit of stocking levels, differences in water coming in vs going out, etc, is if the tank is planted... If it is, what's your fert routine? Sometimes you can be totally fine on stocking levels and matching water coming in vs going out, but you still need to do 50% weekly water changes to level out the ferts that are going into the tank each day and avoid algae. PPS Pro is one of the dosing regimens that do this, but there are several others too.

Basically, trying to oversimplify water change schedules down to a rule like the 1" of fish per gallon stocking rule is doomed to be as inadequate as that same rule. You really do need to take a look at all the factors and adjust for each tank's situation.

I agree with your notion that we wouldn't go round quoting the 'inch per gallon rule' so why would we go round with a generic figure on how much water you need to change and how often?

Advice like 'your tank is an un flushed toilet and your fish are swimming in their own waste isn't very informative advice to me.

With the help of scientific understanding we can advise and allow someone to use the science, the facts, the results, visual awareness (agreed with Andy) and common sense to make there own informed decision on the needs of their individual tanks water change routine.



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[gilpi]

I've never seen a fish come out of its tank to poop, so that they swim in their own waste is not far from the truth. Everything that has been said here boils down to one thing...water change. You can fancy it up with all the pretty scientific terminology, it still equals a water change. Now we have to do a formula as to how much water to change, wow! 30% is good 50 is not, Great way to confuse and intimidate newcomers. Here's one I just read here.... "If your fish looks bad after a water change, you've changed too much water" What!? Are you kidding? How about maybe there's something wrong with the water you're using, that's why they look bad? I wish the advice here would be geared more towards the basics and less confusing information

 

[Caliban07]

I've never seen a fish come out of its tank to poop, so that they swim in their own waste is not far from the truth. Everything that has been said here boils down to one thing...water change.
You can fancy it up with all the pretty scientific terminology, it still equals a water change.
Now we have to do a formula as to how much water to change, wow!
30% is good 50 is not, Great way to confuse and intimidate newcomers.
Here's one I just read here.... "If your fish looks bad after a water change, you've changed too much water" What!? Are you kidding? How about maybe there's something wrong with the water you're using, that's why they look bad?
Not for me but for those that really need it, I wish the advice would be geared more to the basics.

Why are you so obsessed with telling us that it boils down to a water changes. Everyone in this thread knows we need to do water changes. The dispute is over HOW MUCH water to change and the answer simply is, it depends.

It is the people who are unaware of the science and pretty terminology that unintentionally cause harm to their fish, me included at one time.

Thankfully I now have a better understanding of the hobby and am able to strike a balance between keeping myself and my fish stress free by changing the amount of water I feel my fish require on a weekly basis.

I'm glad that there are people here who take the time to help this way rather than provide me with basic dumbed down one version generalities that inhibit the need to problem solve myself by using rational and analytical thought processes.

In my tank there is no need to change 50% of the water end of.

Or am I being cruel and subjective? Is my tank a lesser, unkept tank?

Thankfully I know and understand why it isn't.




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[T1KARMANN]

Idea is 2 x 25% per week for a heavy stocked tank

50% in one go is to much lots of different water parameter changes we don't even test for


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[PB_Smith]

Why are you so obsessed with telling us that it boils down to a water changes. Everyone in this thread knows we need to do water changes. The dispute is over HOW MUCH water to change and the answer simply is, it depends.

It is the people who are unaware of the science and pretty terminology that unintentionally cause harm to their fish, me included at one time.

Thankfully I now have a better understanding of the hobby and am able to strike a balance between keeping myself and my fish stress free by changing the amount of water I feel my fish require on a weekly basis.

I'm glad that there are people here who take the time to help this way rather than provide me with basic dumbed down one version generalities that inhibit the need to problem solve myself by using rational and analytical thought processes.

In my tank there is no need to change 50% of the water end of.

Or am I being cruel and subjective? Is my tank a lesser, unkept tank?

Thankfully I know and understand why it isn't.




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+1

 

[gilpi]

Why are you so obsessed with telling us that it boils down to a water changes. Everyone in this thread knows we need to do water changes. The dispute is over HOW MUCH water to change and the answer simply is, it depends. It is the people who are unaware of the science and pretty terminology that unintentionally cause harm to their fish, me included at one time. Thankfully I now have a better understanding of the hobby and am able to strike a balance between keeping myself and my fish stress free by changing the amount of water I feel my fish require on a weekly basis. I'm glad that there are people here who take the time to help this way rather than provide me with basic dumbed down one version generalities that inhibit the need to problem solve myself by using rational and analytical thought processes. In my tank there is no need to change 50% of the water end of. Or am I being cruel and subjective? Is my tank a lesser, unkept tank? Thankfully I know and understand why it isn't. Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

This is not about you or how you "feel" or what "you" feel is better for the fish, it's about what works and yes, the more water changes, the better, yes it's a generalization that works. To confuse people with numbers and senseless formulas as to how much to change or not to change is irresponsible. He's another generalization, anything above 0ppm nitrates is harmful, use that as a gage or don't.
To make this personal, is very selfish and adds nothing to the value of this topic.

 

[PNWaquarist]

Now we have to do a formula as to how much water to change, wow! 30% is good 50 is not, Great way to confuse and intimidate newcomers.

You're going to have a difficult time citing the post that claims, "30% is good, 50 is not." Because it doesn't exist.

 

[Delapool]

Out of curiosity what do people do with fish ponds? My neighbours pond seems to just sit there with the cat sleeping on the mesh. I think he cleans it once a year and just whatever rain flushes it, is that normal?

Edit - it's a small pond say 6ft by 3ft by 2ft deep maybe.

 

[PB_Smith]

This is not about you or how you "feel" or what "you" feel is better for the fish, it's about what works and yes, the more water changes, the better, yes it's a generalization that works. To confuse people with numbers and senseless formulas as to how much to change or not to change is irresponsible. He's another generalization, anything above 0ppm nitrates is harmful, use that as a gage or don't.
To make this personal, is very selfish and adds nothing to the value of this topic.

You seem to be the only one getting upset...

 

[Masha]

This is not about you or how you "feel" or what "you" feel is better for the fish, it's about what works and yes, the more water changes, the better, yes it's a generalization that works. To confuse people with numbers and senseless formulas as to how much to change or not to change is irresponsible. He's another generalization, anything above 0ppm nitrates is harmful, use that as a gage or don't.
To make this personal, is very selfish and adds nothing to the value of this topic.

I really don't agree with this.

It's always better to understand what's going on, how things really work. Whether it's your car, or your computer, or your own health, or your aquarium, knowing the basics means that you can make informed decisions when things go wrong.

Maybe we have different ideas of how deeply you have to delve into "how things really work" I know there are people on this forum, for example, who have a much better understanding of chemistry than I'll ever have and no, I don't think that is essential for good fish keeping (although I still admire them for it!)

But it's exactly this "just follow this general rule of thumb and you'll be okay" kind of thinking that leads people to make big mistakes. If you use a bit of common sense, combined with a bit of knowledge, you can figure out how to keep the tank you actually have, instead of the imaginary tank "most people" have.

I'd prefer not to do bigger water changes than I need to do. At the moment I do about 45% - 50% water change once a week and it's working for me, but it would be great if I could do less. Why do more than you have to? It's a waste of water, and I live in a country where water is scare.

 

[BBradbury]

Water Changes

Water Changes...

The large, frequent water change, by this I mean half the tank's volume removed and replaced weekly or at most every 10 days, does a number of good things for the tank. It maintains a steady water chemistry, by removing dissolved nitrogens from the fish wastes. It benefits plants and maintains a high level of minerals the plants need for good health. The filter system removes these over time because of all the water's trips through the system.

The fish, no matter how many you have, do all their "business" in the water. The tank is really a toilet. It needs to be flushed regularly or you will stress your fish no matter how many live there.

You can go the other way and remove too much. Then, you risk shocking the fish due to a sudden change in the water chemistry. Half the tank's volume in gallons doesn't mean you remove half the water. There is generally three inches of bottom material, plants, etc. that change the actual amount of water in the tank.

I measure the tank and put a mark on the halfway point of the tank and remove the water to that point.

The point is really this: The more water you remove and the more often you remove it, the purer the water. You can base your water change on the level of nitrates you want to maintain or some other measurement. But, half removed every 7 to 10 days will guarantee safe water conditions for your fish and plants.

You're the waterkeeper. You decide.

B

 

[Masha]

Out of curiosity what do people do with fish ponds? My neighbours pond seems to just sit there with the cat sleeping on the mesh. I think he cleans it once a year and just whatever rain flushes it, is that normal?

Edit - it's a small pond say 6ft by 3ft by 2ft deep maybe.

I've wondered this too. My father has two ponds, each about the same size as that except maybe about a foot deeper. He just tops them up. But they are absolutely STUFFED with emergent plants. The fish breed like crazy in there.

 

[MollysMollies]

Why are you so obsessed with telling us that it boils down to a water changes. Everyone in this thread knows we need to do water changes. The dispute is over HOW MUCH water to change and the answer simply is, it depends.

It is the people who are unaware of the science and pretty terminology that unintentionally cause harm to their fish, me included at one time.

Thankfully I now have a better understanding of the hobby and am able to strike a balance between keeping myself and my fish stress free by changing the amount of water I feel my fish require on a weekly basis.

I'm glad that there are people here who take the time to help this way rather than provide me with basic dumbed down one version generalities that inhibit the need to problem solve myself by using rational and analytical thought processes.

In my tank there is no need to change 50% of the water end of.

Or am I being cruel and subjective? Is my tank a lesser, unkept tank?

Thankfully I know and understand why it isn't.




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+1 ...also, I am new to this hobby and find all of the diverse information helpful. It's ALWAYS better to know the complicated reasons behind the process, as in the WHY may it be better to change my water in 2 different sets of 25% rather than 1 time at 50%...not to leave out that there may also be a time when a 50% water change IS necessary, but it's better to do it slowly.

Fish keeping is not a simple math problem with a set answer. There are variables, MANY variables.

As far as the "if your fish don't look good after your water change, then you've changed too much," this is a completely helpful statement. It comes from the idea that you've been using the same water all along so if there was a problem with the fresh water, you would've already had sick fish. If the fish only seemed to have changed behavior or dull in color, etc. after your water change, then the difference in your TDS (whatever the makeup) was too drastic a change and you've stressed your fish. Next time, change a lessor amount of water so the TDS is changing but slower, giving your fish more time to acclimate to the new water parameters.

Yes it is a ton of information, but please don't bash on those that are telling you their tried and believed procedures that have worked for them. This forum is wonderful because you get to see all of the different ways to do each process. By reading and being open to understanding what each person is saying, will ultimately help you in making your own EDUCATED process and keeping healthy and happy fish.

 

[gilpi]

+1 ...also, I am new to this hobby and find all of the diverse information helpful. It's ALWAYS better to know the complicated reasons behind the process, as in the WHY may it be better to change my water in 2 different sets of 25% rather than 1 time at 50%...not to leave out that there may also be a time when a 50% water change IS necessary, but it's better to do it slowly. Fish keeping is not a simple math problem with a set answer. There are variables, MANY variables. As far as the "if your fish don't look good after your water change, then you've changed too much," this is a completely helpful statement. It comes from the idea that you've been using the same water all along so if there was a problem with the fresh water, you would've already had sick fish. If the fish only seemed to have changed behavior or dull in color, etc. after your water change, then the difference in your TDS (whatever the makeup) was too drastic a change and you've stressed your fish. Next time, change a lessor amount of water so the TDS is changing but slower, giving your fish more time to acclimate to the new water parameters. Yes it is a ton of information, but please don't bash on those that are telling you their tried and believed procedures that have worked for them. This forum is wonderful because you get to see all of the different ways to do each process. By reading and being open to understanding what each person is saying, will ultimately help you in making your own EDUCATED process and keeping healthy and happy fish.

So you're new to the hobby and welcome, it's a great hobby.
I'll use you as an example of what I've been trying to say all along.... You're new to the hobby and you are giving advice based on what others "feel" is better.
And would you advice me to make two 25% water changes vs two 50% because this is better for the fish?
This is not bashing others for how they do things. This is to the point on how misinformation gets passed around.

 

[PNWaquarist]

I really don't agree with this.

It's always better to understand what's going on, how things really work. Whether it's your car, or your computer, or your own health, or your aquarium, knowing the basics means that you can make informed decisions when things go wrong.

Maybe we have different ideas of how deeply you have to delve into "how things really work" I know there are people on this forum, for example, who have a much better understanding of chemistry than I'll ever have and no, I don't think that is essential for good fish keeping (although I still admire them for it!)

But it's exactly this "just follow this general rule of thumb and you'll be okay" kind of thinking that leads people to make big mistakes. If you use a bit of common sense, combined with a bit of knowledge, you can figure out how to keep the tank you actually have, instead of the imaginary tank "most people" have.

Excellent post.

 

[T1KARMANN]

10% once per week should do it
But why do you only have one neon in a 100 gal that's a bit silly I know you are new to the hobby or is that the only one type of fish you lfs had

Oooops you new so you probably didn't know they do better in groups lol

No matter what you stocking levels are you still need to do some kind of water change your stocking levels just determine how much





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[Caliban07]

Apologize for the off topic post, however water changes aside, you should be upping your stock of neon tetras as they are schooling fish.


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But what about my nitrates? Wouldn't they rise to a detectable level?


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[Caliban07]

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Well I was given too many options in how many fish I could have to form a school. I was just looking for a generic number but the LFS could not provide me with one so I just took the one home.


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[44Paps44]

lol this thread has went way left (lmao @ one Neon)

 

[Luananeko]

Well I was given too many options in how many fish I could have to form a school. I was just looking for a generic number but the LFS could not provide me with one so I just took the one home.

The number of people missing the 1k+ post count and the fact that you're a forum supporter and believing the 1 neon in a 100g tank with super filtration to not be a hypothetical situation is rather staggering