Bio-Spira not working
- Thread starter Mr502go
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Allivymar,
If we keep it up, I'm hoping for Bernie's purchase of his private jet, so we will have a ride to the next gathering since Dino's saucer may never be ready! I think Marineland should help kick in on the plane too!
Seriously, I am just crazy about bio spira, and am more than happy to help promote something that helps people have an enoyable fishkeeping experience, and might keep them in the hobby. I know how much I am enjoying my new hobby! Keep up your good service Bernie, & I will keep acting like your sales rep!
If we keep it up, I'm hoping for Bernie's purchase of his private jet, so we will have a ride to the next gathering since Dino's saucer may never be ready! I think Marineland should help kick in on the plane too!
Seriously, I am just crazy about bio spira, and am more than happy to help promote something that helps people have an enoyable fishkeeping experience, and might keep them in the hobby. I know how much I am enjoying my new hobby! Keep up your good service Bernie, & I will keep acting like your sales rep!
Mr502go
Aquarium Advice Activist
hopefully, I'll get around to getting my tank cycled soon. With this bout with Ich, I had to temporarily abandon hope of cycling my tank, it seems everybody made it through ok. I've been keeping antibiotic in there to make sure there are no secondary infections. I thought my bristlenose may have had popeye, but I think he's ok, sooo I'm stopping the meds.
Anybody used the aquarium pharmeceuticals tap water filter?? A buddy of mine gave me a cultured 15 gal eclipse set up, along with this curious device. His wife just had a baby, so he hasn't had time to keep up with it. Anywho, I still want to get my tank up and running properly.
Anybody used the aquarium pharmeceuticals tap water filter?? A buddy of mine gave me a cultured 15 gal eclipse set up, along with this curious device. His wife just had a baby, so he hasn't had time to keep up with it. Anywho, I still want to get my tank up and running properly.
An t-iasg
Aquarium Advice Addict
Hi Mr502go,
I agree with what Allivymar said (I always agree with what she says
) that you should e-mail Marineland about the bad batches of Bio-Spira. They should compensate you, and also they would want to know about all the packages that you bought at the one lfs that apparently were not handled right. I did see your other post about the new tanks! Congrats, and you will be busy! What did your friend say about the tap water filter? I don't know anything about it. You could try a google search on it too. I'm currently trying to mix up RO water and see what my parameters are like. Good luck with Marineland, if you contact them, and good luck with the new tanks!
I agree with what Allivymar said (I always agree with what she says
) that you should e-mail Marineland about the bad batches of Bio-Spira. They should compensate you, and also they would want to know about all the packages that you bought at the one lfs that apparently were not handled right. I did see your other post about the new tanks! Congrats, and you will be busy! What did your friend say about the tap water filter? I don't know anything about it. You could try a google search on it too. I'm currently trying to mix up RO water and see what my parameters are like. Good luck with Marineland, if you contact them, and good luck with the new tanks!You might get some kind of freebie from Marineland, but I wouldn't think it
would be their responsibility for two reasons:
1- As I recalled from reading the post (I may be mistaken), but you didn't
really use Bio-Spira as prescribed.. That is, adding it essentially as you
add your fish under conditions where there where NO existing ammonia/
nitrites levels! Remember that is how the product is promoted; Not as
a cure-all!
** After double-checking posts; I understand that fish were added quite some time AFTER the Bio-spira was put in. Which leaves it (like it was
explained... that much of the bacteria could have died off!!??) Not sure
just how long we're talking about, but?? .... If it was more than 1 week;
I'd say you lost most of it!
2- Once Marineland ships to the Retailer..... the burden for proper care
and selling of the product within the established timeframes RESTS WITH
THE RETAILER!! They may or may not be honest or even know how
long they've had the stock,etc (although they should have some invoice
back-up).
Just trying to keep it "Fair and Balanced" like FOXNEWS!! LOL!!!
Bernie
would be their responsibility for two reasons:
1- As I recalled from reading the post (I may be mistaken), but you didn't
really use Bio-Spira as prescribed.. That is, adding it essentially as you
add your fish under conditions where there where NO existing ammonia/
nitrites levels! Remember that is how the product is promoted; Not as
a cure-all!
** After double-checking posts; I understand that fish were added quite some time AFTER the Bio-spira was put in. Which leaves it (like it was
explained... that much of the bacteria could have died off!!??) Not sure
just how long we're talking about, but?? .... If it was more than 1 week;
I'd say you lost most of it!
2- Once Marineland ships to the Retailer..... the burden for proper care
and selling of the product within the established timeframes RESTS WITH
THE RETAILER!! They may or may not be honest or even know how
long they've had the stock,etc (although they should have some invoice
back-up).
Just trying to keep it "Fair and Balanced" like FOXNEWS!! LOL!!!
Bernie
You know...I went back and reread the Bio-Spira stuff on the Marineland webpage. While personally I think it should be used specifically for starting a tank it DOES say:
"BIO-Spira may also be added with each water change, when adding additional fish, and established aquaria that are experiencing water quality problems due to disruption of the bio-filter."
Interesting. So they ARE claiming it can be used in other instances and this was one of the occasions it IS recommended for...
"BIO-Spira may also be added with each water change, when adding additional fish, and established aquaria that are experiencing water quality problems due to disruption of the bio-filter."
Interesting. So they ARE claiming it can be used in other instances and this was one of the occasions it IS recommended for...
Alli...
I agree with your point.... but I think they're refering to "partial" losses
of bacteria; and then promptly add additional Bio-spira.
In this case, it sounded more like most all bacteria was lost; then added fish
and levels got high; then added more Bio???
Kind of a gray matter; but..?!
I'd also still suggest checking with the retailer and see what they say!?
Bernie
I agree with your point.... but I think they're refering to "partial" losses
of bacteria; and then promptly add additional Bio-spira.
In this case, it sounded more like most all bacteria was lost; then added fish
and levels got high; then added more Bio???
Kind of a gray matter; but..?!
I'd also still suggest checking with the retailer and see what they say!?
Bernie
Mr502go
Aquarium Advice Activist
actually, I put the fish in within 24 hours of the addition of the Bio-Spira. Their wording is kind of strange in that it says basically your tank will be ready for fish in 24hrs. I did this at the advice of the lfs, they said to wait 24hrs, then put the fish in. Despite conflicting info seen here, I did wait, though not quite 24 hrs.
Despite the 24hr deal, I've seen where others have put bio-spira in following the addition of bio-spira, and tho, some ammonia had accumulated, they witnessed an increase in nitrites, and decrease in ammonia, then finally nitrates. I saw none of this.
Despite the 24hr deal, I've seen where others have put bio-spira in following the addition of bio-spira, and tho, some ammonia had accumulated, they witnessed an increase in nitrites, and decrease in ammonia, then finally nitrates. I saw none of this.
OK... you clarified that!! So... you're OK on that point!
Sounds like we're left with a "bad" batch (or some other item we haven't
discovered yet).
I would say that the Retailer would be the responsible party in that
case. They probably won't acknowledge that if it is true?? But, I
don't honestly know what Marineland would do for you??
It's worth a try I suppose..... Let us know what happens in either
case!!!
Bernie
Sounds like we're left with a "bad" batch (or some other item we haven't
discovered yet).
I would say that the Retailer would be the responsible party in that
case. They probably won't acknowledge that if it is true?? But, I
don't honestly know what Marineland would do for you??
It's worth a try I suppose..... Let us know what happens in either
case!!!
Bernie
I actually suggested Mr502 talk to Marineland. My thought on it was its their product even if they were not the final seller...and then they would know one of their retailers is selling poor product as well. They are so gung ho about it, and so sure its the next best thing since sliced bread (and I agree *grin*) that they would stand behind their product no matter what. Poor guy got Mrs. PMS tho and she obviously doesn't have customer service skills.
Heh, if twas me, I'd be writing the pres of the company. Not only because of the performance of the product, but because of the service as well. If I get great service I send a letter, but give me crappy service? OOoooo I send letters then too
Heh, if twas me, I'd be writing the pres of the company. Not only because of the performance of the product, but because of the service as well. If I get great service I send a letter, but give me crappy service? OOoooo I send letters then too
Remind me not to get you too mad at me, Allivy!! 
I think Marineland probably would do something, just because (like you said) its their product.
But, I honestly, can't see where they could be responsible for what the "individual"
retailer does or doesn't do!!???
The ethical practice of what or how something like that is sold to "trusting"
customers is a reflection only upon the store that sold it and/or what was said
at the time of purchase (in my opinion).
But I'd still be curious to hear from Mr502 as to what ends up on this!!
Bernie
I think Marineland probably would do something, just because (like you said) its their product.
But, I honestly, can't see where they could be responsible for what the "individual"
retailer does or doesn't do!!???
The ethical practice of what or how something like that is sold to "trusting"
customers is a reflection only upon the store that sold it and/or what was said
at the time of purchase (in my opinion).
But I'd still be curious to hear from Mr502 as to what ends up on this!!
Bernie
AtodaJ
Aquarium Advice Freak
I still don't think the batches were bad. However, if they were bad batches then there is no way to tell who is to blame. Maybe the retailer mishandled them or maybe they were bad batches from Marineland. No one can say with any level of certaintly and I fear you'll never know.
Incidently, I got some additional info on Bio Spira. Apparently the bacteria don't like to be free floating. As such, they try to adhere to whatever they can. While in the Bio Spira bag they will tend to accumulate on the sides of the packet. The longer the bag sits in the fridge the heavier this accumulation will be. So what does this mean? When you put Bio Spira in your tank be sure to scrape off the accumulated "slime" from the sides of the bag into the tank as a rather large concentration of the bacteria will be present there.
Tap Water Filter - I just purchased one and am not impressed. It works very well in creating RO type water but you don't really get much bang for your buck. A filter cartridge costs like $18 and I only got 20 gallons from it. That is much more expensive than just buying the Distilled water from my local supermarket! Bottomline is that if you happen to have fairly soft tap water already then it might be worth it but if you have hard water (mine is 10 dh) then it doesn't seem worth it.
Incidently, I got some additional info on Bio Spira. Apparently the bacteria don't like to be free floating. As such, they try to adhere to whatever they can. While in the Bio Spira bag they will tend to accumulate on the sides of the packet. The longer the bag sits in the fridge the heavier this accumulation will be. So what does this mean? When you put Bio Spira in your tank be sure to scrape off the accumulated "slime" from the sides of the bag into the tank as a rather large concentration of the bacteria will be present there.
Tap Water Filter - I just purchased one and am not impressed. It works very well in creating RO type water but you don't really get much bang for your buck. A filter cartridge costs like $18 and I only got 20 gallons from it. That is much more expensive than just buying the Distilled water from my local supermarket! Bottomline is that if you happen to have fairly soft tap water already then it might be worth it but if you have hard water (mine is 10 dh) then it doesn't seem worth it.
Mr502go
Aquarium Advice Activist
The lfs has been super accomodating. He's offering discounts, and gave me a free batch of bio-spira today. He's instructed me to do NO more water changes to give the tank a chance to stabilize. Well, I did do a good 50% change today to knock the ammonia down, put in fresh filter media (wanna make sure ALL antibiotic from ich is gone) I'll put the bio-spira in when I see the water's pretty clear again, it still has a yellowish tint from the meds. I did a water 50% on Sat too, sooo, right now, ammonia is at 0, I've also got a second HOB with just white diamond ammonia removing chips in it. Soooo, we'll see what happens from here. Hopfully I can put the bio-spira in tomorrow. I'm also putting a different bio-wheel on (don't wanna take chance of antibiotics having soaked into the old one, and kill off bio-spira)
I'm estimating I should be able to start trying to cycle my tank again within roughly 24hrs.
Does this sound right to everybody?? I'll check my levels again tomorrow prior to adding bio-spira, if they're still on the high side, I'll do another water change, let the water circulate for an hour or so, then add. Just wanna do this right, lfs SAYS this is a fresh batch. I just hope that it was handled properly.
My lfs is being helpful, just experiencing the once bitten twice shy thing I guess.
I'm estimating I should be able to start trying to cycle my tank again within roughly 24hrs.
Does this sound right to everybody?? I'll check my levels again tomorrow prior to adding bio-spira, if they're still on the high side, I'll do another water change, let the water circulate for an hour or so, then add. Just wanna do this right, lfs SAYS this is a fresh batch. I just hope that it was handled properly.
My lfs is being helpful, just experiencing the once bitten twice shy thing I guess.
An t-iasg
Aquarium Advice Addict
The ammonia is at 0 now? That's good. So when you add the Bio-Spira, it will be like you're adding it to a new tank. Even though the package says you can add it later, and I've done so, maybe you'd do best with starting over like it was a new tank. So, I would check my levels tomorrow prior to adding the Bio-Spira. The ammonia should still be 0 since you're using the ammonia removing chips. But then I would remove the chips and add the Bio-Spira. I know you added the chips because the ammonia level had to come down, but I would remove them so they don't compete with the Bio-Spira. Hope this helps!
Right.... I would remove the ammo-chips prio to using Bio-spira, like An t-iasg said.
AtodaJ also made a good point in that there prob WAS no way of telling who
would be to blame on the "questionable" batch previously!! I shouldn't have
rushed to blame the lfs!
I'm also glad to hear the lfs is trying to accomodate you, Mr502go..!!!
Let's hope this one goes as it is supposed to!
Bernie
AtodaJ also made a good point in that there prob WAS no way of telling who
would be to blame on the "questionable" batch previously!! I shouldn't have
rushed to blame the lfs!
I'm also glad to hear the lfs is trying to accomodate you, Mr502go..!!!
Let's hope this one goes as it is supposed to!
Bernie
Mr502go
Aquarium Advice Activist
well, we'll see what happens, ammonia was at 0, so I put in the new bio-wheel, and the bio-spira. . . tick tock tick tock. Also removed the ammonia chips. Well see what happens next.
Mr502go
Aquarium Advice Activist
Update: ammonia is roughly .25, maybe a lil less, nitrites 0, nitrates roughly 5.0
Bear in mind, tank does have cobomba (did I spell right??) two bunches of wisteria, and a small java fern. I imagine they may be using up a bit of nitrates.
Still have fingers crossed.
Bear in mind, tank does have cobomba (did I spell right??) two bunches of wisteria, and a small java fern. I imagine they may be using up a bit of nitrates.
Still have fingers crossed.
Has anyone here tried Fritz Turbo Start? (www.fritzpet.com) it was around for several years before Bio-Spira and works great. They have a Fresh and Saltwater formula.
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