Black Moor

[gtamborine]

Hi, I am new to Aquarium Advice but was recommended to this site via one of the SW members. We have a 30-Long FW-WarmWater tank with a variety of fish. Recently my girlfriend purchased a relatively young Black Moor. We have had this fish about 5 days now, and in the last 24 hrs the right eye of the Moor has turned whitish, as if he lost it, or went blind. Also, the very tip of his right rear fin turned white. Is this some sort of disease? Stress? Possibly the fish got hurt? I've noted, compared to other Goldfish the Moors are different, does anyone have any comprehensive information on these types of fish?

Thanks for all your help.

[Menagerie]

[center:1a7169a4f9] Welcome to AA, gtamborine!! [/center:1a7169a4f9]

Answer these Qs to ensure we have as much information as possible about your ailing fish and its environment (some are repeats to what you already said):

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the beset of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are there current sizes?
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

For right now, I would QT the black moor. The fish is stressed and ill, but I'm not sure from what yet. Black moors should not live with tropical fish, since black moors are not tropical. Their needs are very different.

[gtamborine]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the beset of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).

-- Black Moor ; Right eye has turned whitish color, as well as right rear fin tip. (approx 1/8" of tail)

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

-- Don't know at this exact moment, last checked all numbers were within normal parameters

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?

-- 30 gallon, Long format (36" wide); tank has been up for a few months.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

Eheim 2250; good for 75g, gph is 116 on intake.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are there current sizes?

3 fantail goldfish (2, are 2" including tail; 1 3" including tail)
1 plec - 4 inches
4 pristella tetra - 1 inch
6 neon tetra - 1"
4 zebra danio - 1"
1 male guppy - 1.5" with tail
1 silver skirted tetra - 2"
1 black moor - 1.5" including tail
8 ghost shirmp - less than 1 inch
1 mystery snail
1 rams horn snail
1 siamese fighting fish (Betta) - 2" including tail

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

Saturday evening, 6 gallons.
Water change every two weeks or so.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

Most of the fish are quite old and have previously lived in a 10 gallon tank with oversized filteration system.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

Only "new" items added to the tank were plants: Corkscrew Vail, Onion Plant, and Octopus Plant.

Other details: tank includes Mondo Grass, and substrate is Florida Fine Gravel. Double light fixtures with Antinic Blue Blub and White Day light bulb, both on independant timers with overlap simulating day/night. Penn Plax autofeeder.

[Menagerie]

Look through these links:
http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/hobbyist/hobbyist3.htm
http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html
http://fish.mongabay.com/diseases.htm

If anything resembles what the black moor has, post back. Eye cloudiness could be bacterial or from water parameters.

30 gallon

116 on intake

That gives a turn over less than 4 times per hour. Ideally, you should aim for 6 times with average fish and 8-10 times for "messy" fish, which include goldfish. Get your water tested ASAP and ask for the exact values, do not accept, "it's fine."

[jsoong]

Look at this comprehensive thread on goldies's diseases:
http://www.goldfishparadise.com/foru...pic.php?t=2040
esp. the entry on pop-eye. Compare that to the pictures ... There is a pic of a moor with pop-eye ... looks like yours?

[Lance M.]

Also goldfish are coldwater fish so they aren't recommended with being kept with tropical fish (like you are doing). The high temp can hurt the goldfish.

[gtamborine]

I found out more about the Black Moor and its origins. My girlfriend purchased him from, of all places, walmart! all of our other fish has been purchased from aquatic centers. She got him, because she thought "he was cute." I have a suspicions that whatever harmed this fish wasn't a result of my tank setup, but i will have to test the water to make sure.

After reading the links above regarding goldfish diseases, it seems as though he had eye loss, and a minor case of fin-rot on the right rear fin.

I was informed this morning that, sadly, our moor has pass away in the quarantine tank. I appreciate everyone's help with trying to save this fish.

Someone mentioned:
" Also goldfish are coldwater fish so they aren't recommended with being kept with tropical fish (like you are doing). The high temp can hurt the goldfish. " -- not 100% true dr. alexrod says that goldfish are the most robust and have the largest temperature range. Plus, our tank is set at 73 degrees F. which is not outside of the temperature range for any of the tetra's or the goldfish. The idea that goldfish are "cold water" only, goes along with the folk lure that Betta's can't live with other fish. which is also not true.

[Menagerie]

I'm sorry to hear that the moor passed. You really did everything you could. Keep an eye on the others and take immediate action if there is something amiss.

The idea that goldfish are "cold water" only

I would say cooler water! I wouldn't keep them with my tropicals, since most perfer 76*F+

folk lure that Betta's can't live with other fish. which is also not true.

It really depends on the betta's personality. Many of the members here keep bettas with a friend, some of us are lucky to have a betta in a community tank (in my case, it's a female betta).

[Lance M.]

Goldfish are coldwater fish, best kept around 73 or lower. If kept in tropical temps 76+ it can hurt the fish later on in life, the effects can't be seen for a long while. And since goldfish are not tropical fish, they can develop different illnesses.

Also when doing research, you should know to never rely solely on one source- no matter who/what it is.