breeding goldfish

[Phoenixphire55]

I'd really like to eventually breed goldfish, probably fantails and or ryukin. I'm wondering what the ideal set-up for breeding goldfish is. I'm also wondering what would be the wisest kinds of goldfish to breed. By this I mean what goldfish types can I breed which will produce babies that people will want to buy? I dont know anything about the qualities that make a good show goldfish etc. I won't be attempting any of this for a year at least, so I'm just gathering info.

 

[theotheragentm]

What size tank do you have available? Koi are quite desirable but they get very large. Look at the prices at PETCO and PetSmart. That will give you some information as to what going rates are for the fish.

 

[Phoenixphire55]

I think koi are really cool, but I'm not looking to breed something that big. I was thinking one of the fancy goldfish variety, but I'm a little opposed to the goldfish which have trouble swimming / have eye sacs etc. I'm sure you know what I mean. I want to breed goldfish that are hardy, attractive, and "non-disabled". I can't think of the right word to distinguish between them, but to me "non-disabled" would be fantails, comets, shubunkin, ryukin, etc. "Disabled" would be the celestial eyes, or the ones with eye-sacs, lionheads, orandas(?), ranchus etc.
I guess I probably want to breed some really beautiful ryukins, and fantails. I guess ryukins get bigger than fantails, but how big do you think a tank should be to house a few of ryukins and a few fantails in a setting where they'll likely breed? I have two fantails and I plan to get them a larger tank when I move in the next couple months. Ideally I'd like this tank to be the tank that I breed goldfish in, in the future. I don't want to buy some 200 gallon tank or anything though.

 

[jsoong]

Ideally, you should be breeding goldies in a pond. Failing that, as large a tank as you can accomodate (and use breeder tanks with larger surface areas - a 50 breeder would be a good starter setup).

This is a good site for info on what makes a show quality fancy goldfish:
Bristol Aquarists' Society for fancy goldfish varieties, how to keep them, and how to breed them

I must warn you that breeding good quality goldies is labour intensive. You need good breeding stocks (the pet store fish are usually rejects from the fancy goldfish breeders). You can only keep a single variety in each tank (eg, if you keep fantails & ryukins in one tank, the babies will be mongrels & won't breed true.).

Even with parents of one variety, goldies tend not to breed true. The double tailed fancies are genetically pretty messed up and breeders usually have to discard most of the babies due to deformities, and from the few healthy ones left, most are only good for general pet trades (and these will not fetch much), you will need lots of work & experience to get show quality results.

From what I read, the hardiest fancies are the self metallic fantails <ie gold coloured common fantail>, but I would think that breeding calico ryukins would be more rewarding as a hobby.

 

[Phoenixphire55]

I've been reading a lot about ryukins and I think thats what I'd like to breed. Where do you buy them if the pet store ones are not-so great? Do they have to be imported to get good ones?

 

[Purrbox]

You could check to see if your area has either a pond or fish club. These would be your best sources for locating local breeders.

 

[Phoenixphire55]

one last related question. I dont really know how much these fish cost. How much would I expect to pay a local breeder for a relatively nice ryukin male? female? What about a really nice one? Thanks for the help peeps

 

[jsoong]

Nice specimens go for $100 & up at one of our lfs ..... It is not unusual for people to pay $300 for a single fish.

Since I am not a breeder or into shows, I look for bargains in the lower tiers. If you know what a breed is supposed to look like, you can sometimes find a nice specimen that the breeder had let slipped through. <There are always stories of the 30 cent feeder that grew up into a show champ!> I'd look for young fish in the $20-30 range, and there is often one that is close to show standard. Of course, it will take you 4-5 years to grow the young ones to breeding size.

 

[Phoenixphire55]

Just curious Jsoong, if you have 7 goldfish why dont you breed them? If they have babies what do you do with them then?

 

[jsoong]

I have 7 fish of different breeds, so having a "community breeding tank" would be unlikely to produce anything of value. It would be too much work for me to set up breeding tanks & do selected pair breeding.

As for babies, I don't have any spawning yet. I have a heater in the tank & keep the temp constant. Without a temp drop/rise cycle (simulating winter/spring) the fish won't get the signal to spawn. If they do, well, I'll just leave the eggs in the tank. The adults likely will eat the eggs. If any survive (with lots of plants, that is possible), I'll see if any frys are worth raising. <The rest goes into my neigbour's pond.>