Buoyancy problem or SBD?

[marina]

This is Donnie. he started swimming "on his side" this past Sunday, Feb 21. He is in a divided, filtered and heated 10 gal tank with another male betta (on the other side). This tank was set up 2 weeks ago so it is not fully cycled yet. Ammonia reading was something between .25 and .50, doing pwc (50%) every 2 days. No Nitrites and of course no Nitrates. After reading about constipation I fed him a pea on Sunday. Monday morning he was swimming better, Monday evening he is back swimming on his side. I was advised not to stressed him out moving him to another tank and to add 1/2 cup of dissolved Aquarium salt, which I did also Sunday.
What should be my next step? Should add more salt? Should I feed him his food (Topfin Betta pellets)? should I keep feeding him peas? Thank you so very much for your time.
Forgot to mention he is swallen as well (not all over just behind his head, on one side-see 2nd photo below)

 

[BigJim]

Add 1/8 tsp of epsom salt to the tank and stop the feedings. My wife's betta, Gus, just got over a bout of constipation. We also gave him baths in a concentrated tetracycline solution to ensure it wasn't an internal bug. I believe we used Maracyn. We fed the other critters in the tank while Gus was in the bath. I think we starved Gus for about a week, then fed him just a couple pellets every fourth or fifth day. The swelling finally started to go down after a couple weeks. It's probably been about 6 weeks now and he just got back to normal. If your betta like peas, it might be worth continuing. Gus doesn't like peas, so they just fell to Murray the mystery snail.

 

[marina]

Funny you mentioned about the epsom salt...I asked about that since I had some at home, but they told me "No, aquarium salt" Would you mind explaining why you chose the epsom salt? if I decide to add it to the tank, is there any problems snce I have already introduced Aquarium salt in it? Also about the "concentrated tetracycline baths", Donnie is in a divided tank, therefore, i would have to take him out of the tank to do those baths...Is that a good idea? Donnie is a little piggie so he will eat anything, hence, no problem witht the peas... i appreciate your advice, thank you!

 

[BigJim]

Epsom salt is a laxative. Aquarium salt is also good because it provides the nutrients the fish need to build slime coat. You should have no issues adding both salts to the tank. I didn't.

The baths were conducted in a little betta bowl. You could do it in Tupperware or a mixing bowl too. I didn't want to dose the tank because of the neons and snails that also live in there. Besides, with a smaller water volume, it was easier to get a concentrated bath and not waste the expensive medicine.

 

[marina]

Thank you BigJim...I will definately do the Epsom salt...So do you think that i should move him to a 'hospital tank" until he gets better or should I just remove him for the baths and then return him to the 10 gal? How often did you do the medicated baths and for how long? Thanks again...

 

[dkpate]

I would just keep up with the peas before medicating. Make sure you boil them first, and de-shell them. How often and how much do you feed him? Bettas bellies are only as big as their eyes, so they don't eat much. And I find it best to soak the pellets in water for about 5 minutes before feeding them. I feed mine 3 pellets each, every 12 hours.
You should be changing out 20%-50% of the water every day if your ammonia is that high, because that will also compromise their immune systems.
Remember, when you use salt, it doesn't evaporate, so you have to manually take it out. When you are dosing salt with bettas, you should be changing 50% of the water every day, or it is like overdosing them. Bettas should also not have salt for more than 10 days, or their kidneys will start shutting down.

 

[7Enigma]

You need to be doing 50-75% water changes each day. Make sure the water is the SAME temperature as the tank water and dechlorinated. Cut the feedings back to every other day. I would stop using the salt. You're trying to establish a bacterial colony and they do not like you playing around with the salt levels (as an aside if you added the entire 1/2 cup of salt at once that probably wasn't a good idea).

You are nowhere near the end of the cycle so be prepared for a long journey. At this point in time I would personally consider adding some fast growing plants such as anacharis, wisteria, or stargrass. The dual benefit of providing some beneficial bacteria and also helping to soak up some of the ammonia will lessen the need for such frequent water changes. If they start to wither throw them out, you don't need more things contributing to the ammonia.

The combination of bad water quality and possible overfeeding/constipation is not good. With the current condition of the betta I would not allow the ammonia to get to 0.25ppm. Even at that level it's not great, but with frequent water changes and a dechlorinator such as Prime that detoxifies the ammonia in the water you are in a better place.

dkpate, I don't understand the overdosing comment about 50% water changes every day when dosing salt?

 

[dkpate]

Salt does not leave the tank without a water change, so you have to take it out with pwc's. Bettas are sensitive, so you have to be careful with what you put in there. With meds you can only dose 1/2 also.
This is information I have gotten from a lady who has kept bettas for 30+ years.

 

[7Enigma]

Salt does not leave the tank without a water change, so you have to take it out with pwc's. Bettas are sensitive, so you have to be careful with what you put in there. With meds you can only dose 1/2 also.
This is information I have gotten from a lady who has kept bettas for 30+ years.

OK. The wording was a bit weird in your other post. I thought you meant if you were still dosing salt you needed to do 50% water changes (ie adding back in salt but doing 50% a day). That wouldn't make sense.

 

[BigJim]

I did kind of overlook your cycling issues. As recommended above, daily 50-80% PWCs are a good idea.

Tetracycline is just an antibiotic. I was told by a LFS I trust to put Gus, the betta, in a concentrated bath and leave him for a while, as long as he didn't look stressed. I used a little betta bowl (20oz maybe?) and half a packet of Maracyn for a bath. Gus would do the "hungry dance" as my wife calls it for a while and then just sit and look bored, but never stressed. I'd leave him in the bath for 1-4 hrs, depending on how much time I had to watch him. I did the baths daily for about a week.

Dkpate,

Interesting note on the salt and betta health. I'll have to keep that in mind.

 

[dkpate]

Ok, now I am confused lol.
If you are adding salt every day, you need to be taking out at least 50% of the water before you dose again, or it's like having twice as much salt.

 

[7Enigma]

Ok, now I am confused lol.
If you are adding salt every day, you need to be taking out at least 50% of the water before you dose again, or it's like having twice as much salt.

I think we may just be confusing each other saying the same thing in a way the othe person doesn't understand!

I don't know why you would need to add salt everyday? The only time you'd need to add salt is if you are doing a water change. Salt doesn't get "old".

When doing a smaller/larger PWC you just have to change your dosage. If you have 1 cup of salt in 10 gallons of water let's say that's 100ppm. Your goal is to keep ~100ppm in the tank during the duration of the treatment. If I do a 25% water change and fill it back up with regular water I'm now down to 75ppm. I would have had to add 1/4 cup back into the tank to keep everything the same (not counting losses due to evaporation).

Same goes if I did a 50% water change, I'd be down to 50ppm salt and would need to add back that 50ppm using a 1/2 cup.

PLEASE note these numbers are made up, it's simply an example. You need to calculate your own amount of salt to add in during a water change based on the TOTAL amount of salt present in the tank

 

[dkpate]

Yes, exactly what I meant lol. You put it much better though.

So what I was saying was, before you put more salt in, do a pwc. And if you do a pwc, replace the salt you took out.

 

[7Enigma]

Yes, exactly what I meant lol. You put it much better though.

So what I was saying was, before you put more salt in, do a pwc. And if you do a pwc, replace the salt you took out.

Got it, we were in agreement the whole time.

 

[dkpate]

Yep! I am almost at the end of my 12 hour shift, so it's a good thing we got it all figured out!

 

[marina]

Guys, thank you sooo much for your advice. Donnie is back to normal!!! I not even got to use the Epsom salt!!! So the pea may have helped?? I used to feed him 3 pellets soaked in tank water before, so I am going to decreased to 2 and add some variarity to his diet...Thank you BigJim,dkpate & 7enigma...I will keep the pwc avery day...I don't mind since the reward of looking at those 2 do "their thing" is so much greater! Have a great day

 

[BigJim]

Glad to hear Donnie is doing well. Feed him a pea every week or two and keep up those PWCs.

 

[dkpate]

So glad he's doing better!
+1 for the once a week peas!