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Old 10-12-2003, 02:19 AM   #1
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bye bye gourami

Well, I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that my gourami is doomed. From all that I've been reading, and talking to people, I think I have to go with TB as a diagnosis (or as good a guess as I can make without a fish clinic to take it too). Now my dilema continues...what do I co about the rest of my tank? I have four other fish (and an amazing snail) in the 10 gal. I was reading a previous posting about someone who had a blue gourami with the same symptoms, and after he euthenized his fish, he had to strip the tank down and wash it out with bleach. Do I really have to do that?!! And if my other fish have it (although for all appearances they're healthy...touch wood), wouldn't they just recontaminate a clean tank. I think I should just keep the rest of the tank as usual, and wait and see what happens...Now here's another problem...my child is very young and very upset that her blue fish is sick and might have to go away...I really want to play 'switcheroo', and go get another blue gourami and hope she thinks it's hers (she's too young yet to understand life and death and all that). Can I do that, or is it a death-sentence to some poor unsuspecting fish?
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:47 PM   #2
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I would wait. I know its hard to explain to a small child about death; if you are really uncomfortable with that, would she accept the "fish went on vacation"? Then you can give the tank some time to be sure all the others remain healthy and try again.
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Old 10-13-2003, 12:46 AM   #3
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We've been talking about it. She doesn't really cognitively understand the concept of death yet, but I think on some inner level she has a greater understanding than I give her credit for. In the long run, I think I'm better off with the truth and then just helping her deal with it. I'm having alot of trouble finding any information about TB. All I've learned is that it's probably bacterial in origin, and that it's terminal. II treat the tank after the gourami is gone (probably not unless I 've heard conflicting theories of how it will effect the other fish, and the tank in general, and also about it's ability to pass onto humans. I think your advice to "give the tank some time to be sure all the others remain healthy and try again" is very practical. Any idea how long I should wait? And if it's bacterial, should know what kind of bacteria, right)?[/b]
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Old 10-13-2003, 01:19 PM   #4
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OOPS... That last line didn't make sense...what it should read is: If TB is bacterial in origin, should I treat the rest of my tank with an antibiotic (or maybe that won't be effective unless I know what kind of bacteria)?
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Old 10-13-2003, 01:59 PM   #5
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Hiya Loren.

This is what my book says about fish TB, it goes on abit but i hope it will help you decide.
A systemic bacterial disease caused by various species of MYCOBACTERIA. Mycobacteria diseases are fairly commonly encountered among tropical aquarium fish.

SIGNS.

The infection may progress slowly. Emerging clinical signs may include one or more of the following: LETHARGY, EMACIATION, EXOPHTHALMIA (pop eye),and pale colouration. These symptoms may be accompanied by persistent skin ULCERS which can vary in severity, and by the onset of skeletal deformities.

CAUSES.

Mycobacterium marinum, and mycobacterium fortuitum are the know cause of fish TB. Poor aquarium hygiene may predispose fish to these infections.

PREVENTION AND TREATMENT.

The careful selection of new stock, and the maintenance of good aquarium hygiene, will go a long way towards preventing outbreaks of mycobacteria. It is advisable to isolate any fish showing signs of TB. The mycobacteria may be transmitted through CANNIBALISM of affected fish tissue and possibly also COPROPHAGY. Open ulcers provide another route by which the mycobacteria can enter the water from the bodies of live fish.
Mycobacteria infections are difficult to treat, although ANTIBIOTICS may sometimes be effective. EUTHANASIA should be carried out on badly infected fish.

I would just like to say these are the words from one of my books and i am in no way saying you keep your tank dirty etc.etc.

HTH
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Old 10-13-2003, 02:20 PM   #6
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Wow, thank you Terry for the detailed info. That took some time, and I appreciate it. That's the most and best info I've found so far on the web...what's the title of that book? Thanks, also, for your diplomacy...I didn't think I kept a dirty tank, but after all I've been reading, I think maybe I do. I read a great article that was posted by Allivymar in the general discussion forum on Old Tank Syndrome and what an eye-opener!!! Thank you Alli! I'm guilty I've been so delighted that I've gone 2 whole years with a fairly stable tank. I've only gone on the advice of the fish store and have been doing 35% water changes every 4-6 weeks, with no problems so far...or so I thought. I was told that to change more often would kill off my helpful bacterium and cause ammonia to spike. I've been gathering my own info now (better late than never?) and various sources all concur...do changes at least 2/month on a small tank like mine. And more frequent smaller changes are better than fewer large changes. This has been a major learning curve for me, sadly at the expense of my fish. And I think I've just left the state of ignorant bliss...now that I know more, I realize how little I know, and now I want to fill in the gaps, so-to-speak. Thanks everyone for all the info...and for not pointing fingers.
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Old 10-14-2003, 05:37 AM   #7
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Hiya Loren,
No Worries, i am pleased to have been able to help you. When it comes to looking after your tank parameters, Allivymar is excellant at giving advice. I had to laugh when you said
Quote:
I've only gone on the advice of the fish store
Well sorry Loren, that's what i am hahahahahaha.

The book that i use for Diseases etc. is called A-Z of Tropical Diseases and health Problems and it's by Burgess, bailey and exell. It is very good.

Hope everything turns out OK, please keep me posted.
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Old 10-14-2003, 12:32 PM   #8
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Uh oh!! Gum on my nose!!! Well, Terry, if you work a fish store, I wish it were closer to me because the few here are pretty disappointing, attitude-wise (we have a new one that might give the others a run for their money, though). Thank goodness for this site! In the short week since I've joined I've gotten more and better advice than I ever have going in to a lfs here. Yes, and I've read quite a few bits by Allyvimar and have, finally, begun to understand the basics of my tank's environment (present and future fish give a loud cheer).
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Old 10-14-2003, 02:04 PM   #9
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Loren i'm glad that we were of some use, enjoy your fish keeping and always remember that everyone is here to help and advise.
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