chloramine issue

[sallyjano]

A couple of weeks ago I did a water change and noticed the fish gasping at the top. Tested the tap water - read 1.0ppm ammonia. I understand that it's actually chloramine giving that reading.

Anyway, last night I did a new water change. I only changed out 30% instead of 40-50% like normal. I added double the dose of prime (for the whole tank) and added the water slowly. Most fish were ok but my guppies and especially my mature female molly were still gasping at the top for a while after the change.

My fish have been healthy. Now all of a sudden my female molly has cloudy eye and a neon tetra has white stuff on him.....I am guessing fungus.

I am worrying that this short period of gasping after a water change is putting stress on my fish and therefore causing illness.

Any ideas? What more can I do other than doubling prime, reducing to 30% change and adding water slowly?

I'd store the water a day ahead of time if possible but my tank is too big, I can't store 20g of water.

Any ideas anyone?

 

[BBradbury]

Your Fish

Hello sal...

Your water changes should be done weekly and at least 50 percent. Livebearing fish, especially Mollies do a little better with a trace of standard aquarium salt added to the tank water. I dose a teaspoon or a bit more in every 5 gallons of replacement water. Might make a big difference in the health of your fish.

B

 

[sallyjano]

Hello sal...

Your water changes should be done weekly and at least 50 percent. Livebearing fish, especially Mollies do a little better with a trace of standard aquarium salt added to the tank water. I dose a teaspoon or a bit more in every 5 gallons of replacement water. Might make a big difference in the health of your fish.

B

Hi BBradbury! I do weekly water changes but the problem is that's dumping the chloramines into the water which seems to be causing some stress for a short while until the prime works. I can't use salt because I have fish that don't like it (cories etc...).

Any ideas on how to deal with the problem of the fish gasping for 10-15 mins after a water change until the Prime fully does its job?

 

[BBradbury]

Your Fish

Hello again sal...

I would change from the Prime liquid to Seachem's "Safe". I switched some time ago and think the "Safe" product is much better. Review the dosing instructions on the Prime label, just be sure you're using the right amount. I don't think you can overdose the liquid water treatment, but check anyway.

A little aquarium salt, up to a couple of teaspoons for every 5 gallons of pure, treated tap water won't bother your Corys a bit. The amount is minimal, but will help heal injuries, boosts the fishes' immune system and has a natural calming affect on stressed fish. I have several tanks and many Corys along with Plecos, Gouramis and Livebearing fish. They're all healthy. I've dosed a little salt in my tanks for close to a decade.

Your choice of course.

B

 

[PNWaquarist]

A couple of weeks ago I did a water change and noticed the fish gasping at the top. Tested the tap water - read 1.0ppm ammonia. I understand that it's actually chloramine giving that reading

Indirectly, yes. Prime reduces chloramines to ammonia and chloride ion.

Hi BBradbury! I do weekly water changes but the problem is that's dumping the chloramines into the water which seems to be causing some stress for a short while until the prime works.

It's best to add Prime (or whichever water conditioner you're using) to your fresh tap water, give it a very good stir, and wait for a good 20-30 min before pouring it into your tank. (I let mine sit overnight, while allowing a heater to raise the water to my tank temperature.) If you're dumping a few mL of water conditioner into a tank, it's going to take several minutes to mix with the rest of the tank water. Your fish may have already been poisoned with chloramines by then.

Also, it sounds like your municipality dumps a lot of chloramine into your drinking water. I'd be giving double doses of water conditioner, just in case.

 

[sallyjano]

Indirectly, yes. Prime reduces chloramines to ammonia and chloride ion.



It's best to add Prime (or whichever water conditioner you're using) to your fresh tap water, give it a very good stir, and wait for a good 20-30 min before pouring it into your tank. (I let mine sit overnight, while allowing a heater to raise the water to my tank temperature.) If you're dumping a few mL of water conditioner into a tank, it's going to take several minutes to mix with the rest of the tank water. Your fish may have already been poisoned with chloramines by then.

Also, it sounds like your municipality dumps a lot of chloramine into your drinking water. I'd be giving double doses of water conditioner, just in case.

Thanks for your input. Yes agreed I think I have a lot of chloramine and it's taking a few mins for the prime to work, during which time my fish are suffering. The problem with your suggestion (letting it sit for 20 mins before putting in the tank) is that I have a 60g tank. So when I do a water change it's 30g of water so not in a quantity that makes it reasonable to do it that way. I use a python water changer and the water goes straight in the tank.

 

[sallyjano]

Hello again sal...

I would change from the Prime liquid to Seachem's "Safe". I switched some time ago and think the "Safe" product is much better. Review the dosing instructions on the Prime label, just be sure you're using the right amount. I don't think you can overdose the liquid water treatment, but check anyway.

A little aquarium salt, up to a couple of teaspoons for every 5 gallons of pure, treated tap water won't bother your Corys a bit. The amount is minimal, but will help heal injuries, boosts the fishes' immune system and has a natural calming affect on stressed fish. I have several tanks and many Corys along with Plecos, Gouramis and Livebearing fish. They're all healthy. I've dosed a little salt in my tanks for close to a decade.

Your choice of course.

B

Salt - OK I will do it! I do have salt but have never used it. I'll try it.

Seachem Safe - I looked it up and see it's Prime in powder format. Just curious why you think that would be better? Do you think it will work faster than Prime?

Thanks

 

[Coyne]

Just thought if toss in my two cents...

I've been adding Prime and tap water directly to my my aquariums every week for 18 months during their PWCs with no ill effects. Even the supposedly sensitive shrimp and cories are alive and kicking (and breeding in the shrimps' case). It takes more than a few minutes of contact with untreated water to affect your fish unless they're already sick to begin with.

Also, do a little research of your own when it comes to adding salt. Most people that add salt do it because that's what they were taught and would rather not change how they do things. Sort of an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of thing. However, modern research has widely debunked most of the "benefits" of adding salt to a freshwater aquarium.
So, like I said... Maybe look into it a little more on your own before you decide. Plenty of info in the web.




Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[PNWaquarist]

Thanks for your input. Yes agreed I think I have a lot of chloramine and it's taking a few mins for the prime to work, during which time my fish are suffering. The problem with your suggestion (letting it sit for 20 mins before putting in the tank) is that I have a 60g tank. So when I do a water change it's 30g of water so not in a quantity that makes it reasonable to do it that way. I use a python water changer and the water goes straight in the tank.

Don't do 50% water changes. That volume size is not necessary, nor is it recommended for general cleaning and nitrate removal. Doing 20-25% weekly water changes is not only a lot more manageable, but will also will be better for the health of your fish (less severe changes in water chemistry). Get two 10-gallon buckets, fill them with tap water, and add water conditioner the night before your water change. If you're trying to induce breeding, do that in a separate tank.

Whatever you end up doing, make sure that you're no longer dumping untreated tap water into your aquarium.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Your problem is not ammonia. But let me just quote SeaChem on this and then I will add a comment or two.

Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3). Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.....

Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. This removes approximately 1 mg/L ammonia, 4 mg/L chloramine, or 5 mg/L chlorine. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first.

from Seachem. Prime

Prime and Excel can be used together, but both are reducing agents, so they shouldn't be overdosed together. If too much is used, it can result in reduced oxygen. If you do overdose them and see fish begin to gasp, increasing aeration and a partial water change will usually remedy the situation.

from Prime and Excel - Seachem Support Forums


Incidentally, reduction removes oxygen from water. This is why your fish are gasping. Do not overdose declors, not even Prime. If the problem persists at the normal dosage, take measures to aerate your tank better during and immediately after water changes for a bit and your fish should be fine. Let the return water splash on the way back in.

Also, dechlorinators and ammonia detoxifiers work very rapidly.

 

[PNWaquarist]

Your problem is not ammonia. But let me just quote SeaChem on this and then I will add a comment or two.

from Seachem. Prime


from Prime and Excel - Seachem Support Forums


Incidentally, reduction removes oxygen from water. This is why your fish are gasping. Do not overdose declors, not even Prime. If the problem persists at the normal dosage, take measures to aerate your tank better during and immediately after water changes for a bit and your fish should be fine. Let the return water splash on the way back in.

You need LARGE overdoses of Prime to severely deplete the oxygen in your tank, especially with a filtration system that aerates the water. From the label on the side of the Prime bottle...

"For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used."

I use double doses of Prime routinely (difficult to measure accurately in the cap) and my fish are never gasping for oxygen.

We can prove this to ourselves by doing the math: Oxygen is approximately 1.4 millimolar when saturated in water. Air contains 21% oxygen, so aquarium water will be about 0.29 millimolar dissolved oxygen.

Prime will remove 5 ppm chlorine, or 0.095 millimolar hypochlorus acid ("chlorine"). Multiply that by two for a double-dose, and you have Prime reacting with 0.190 millimolar chlorine. And that's a two-electron reduction. Converting oxygen to oxide ion is a four-electron reduction, so you'll need twice as much Prime to accomplish that. And, unlike chlorine, oxygen that is chemically removed in aquarium water will be replenished by the air above the water. Unless your aquarium water is completely stagnant, this is not a slow process.

Adding 20 times more Prime than required may temporarily starve your fish of oxygen. Adding twice (or even five times) the standard dose will not.

Also, dechlorinators and ammonia detoxifiers work very rapidly.

When mixed properly, yes. When adding 5 mL of Prime to a 60 gallon tank, not so much. Chemicals need to be mixed rapidly to react rapidly.

His fish are most likely being poisoned by chloramines, not suffocated.

 

[sallyjano]

Your problem is not ammonia. But let me just quote SeaChem on this and then I will add a comment or two.

from Seachem. Prime


from Prime and Excel - Seachem Support Forums


Incidentally, reduction removes oxygen from water. This is why your fish are gasping. Do not overdose declors, not even Prime. If the problem persists at the normal dosage, take measures to aerate your tank better during and immediately after water changes for a bit and your fish should be fine. Let the return water splash on the way back in.

Also, dechlorinators and ammonia detoxifiers work very rapidly.

OOOH thank you thank you!! I turn off the filter when I do a WC and I do use glut. So maybe it's lack of oxygen. I will turn the filter on faster and let the water splash as I add it back in. Thanks!