Circulation Basics 101

[LiQuiD]

As I have gotten more and more into this hobby, I always find myself trying to better the circulation in my tanks. I sit for hours watching the water move, focusing on the movement of anything I can see, to watch how and where its being pulled and pushed. Its become an obsession for me lol.

I understand that you want to try and create a sort of circular current in the tank, so that everything stays moving around and around and eventually ends up in the filter intake. But I have noticed a few things, so wanted to see what others are doing, and am I the only one who constantly fiddles with this?

In my 55 gallon, I have a 425gph powerhead next to the canister outtake, and the intake is at the opposite corner on the far left. My thought is: This much current should push everything to the left, and will eventually roll across the sand and end up in the intake.


Whats Happening: Lots of crap is piled up at the bottom of the outtake and powerhead. Yes, the powerhead is "pushing" water away, but it is also "pulling" it up, in order to blast it out. I decided to move the powerhead over the the side with the outtake, but now it looks as though its pushing stuff away from the intake. I know, I know I know...Im looking to far into this...

So!
1) Where do you have your input/output for your canisters and where do you put your powerhead?

2) Are spray-bars a better option for planted tanks instead of powerheads?

3)Best practice circulation tips?

My next move is to put the intake in the middle of the tank, so that both the outtake and the powerhead push toward the middle.

Thanks for any and all advice as usual!

 

[micaiah12]

I've had my tanks try to have a consistent one way current to simulate current. Basically left to right or right to left. Now I'm not saying that I'm an expert, however it does seem for me. The plants love it. I always drop a small leaf or something that has little weight in the tank to kind of see where the flow goes you know.

As for placement. I have my intakes on the right side and outputs on the left. Creating a steady stream of current. Don't know if that helps you at all.


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[LiQuiD]

I've had my tanks try to have a consistent one way current to simulate current. Basically left to right or right to left. Now I'm not saying that I'm an expert, however it does seem for me. The plants love it. I always drop a small leaf or something that has little weight in the tank to kind of see where the flow goes you know.

As for placement. I have my intakes on the right side and outputs on the left. Creating a steady stream of current. Don't know if that helps you at all.


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Every little bit helps, thank you!
What size are your tanks? Do you have struggles with the longer ones?

 

[Caliban07]

As I have gotten more and more into this hobby, I always find myself trying to better the circulation in my tanks. I sit for hours watching the water move, focusing on the movement of anything I can see, to watch how and where its being pulled and pushed. Its become an obsession for me lol.

I understand that you want to try and create a sort of circular current in the tank, so that everything stays moving around and around and eventually ends up in the filter intake. But I have noticed a few things, so wanted to see what others are doing, and am I the only one who constantly fiddles with this?

In my 55 gallon, I have a 425gph powerhead next to the canister outtake, and the intake is at the opposite corner on the far left. My thought is: This much current should push everything to the left, and will eventually roll across the sand and end up in the intake.


Whats Happening: Lots of crap is piled up at the bottom of the outtake and powerhead. Yes, the powerhead is "pushing" water away, but it is also "pulling" it up, in order to blast it out. I decided to move the powerhead over the the side with the outtake, but now it looks as though its pushing stuff away from the intake. I know, I know I know...Im looking to far into this...

So!
1) Where do you have your input/output for your canisters and where do you put your powerhead?

2) Are spray-bars a better option for planted tanks instead of powerheads?

3)Best practice circulation tips?

My next move is to put the intake in the middle of the tank, so that both the outtake and the powerhead push toward the middle.

Thanks for any and all advice as usual!

No you are not looking too far in to this. in my opinion flow is essential in a planted tank any any tank for that matter. Probably more so in tanks that don't use plants as the importance of circulating oxygen is heightened. Basically any flow pattern that works to counteract the flow pattern from another source is a bad idea. This creates turbulence and weakens the flow creating stagnant areas. It's especially hard to get this right in larger/deeper tanks. All outputs should point the same way and in your case I would have the inlet on the same side behind the outlets with the outlets next to each other.

I'm sure there are many useful configurations and mine is probably still a far cry from perfect but following the advice from others I found that using a spraybar a works well for me.







The water carrying my co2 exits the spray bar across the width of the tank, hits the glass at the front and is forced downwards and backwards along the substrate and back up the back wall in a circular motion around the centre axis.

I just went from about 2x tank turnover and hour to 7x. My BGA problem vanished in two days and my plants are swaying nicely and all plants are growing evenly. Whereas in my older configuration which was a filter in two corners with outlets trying to form a circular motion I would get dead spots and crud patches and the plants in those areas would suffer.

The problem with spray bars is that the longer they are the weaker the exit velocity is from each hole which means you need a more powerful filter.

If you look at some of the pros though, they still have beautiful tanks without using any kind of fancy flow pattern but then I'm sure there are many ways they can accelerate their tanks to look like this before we get to see them.




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[gilpi]

At the moment I dont have any planted tanks but I would think a spray bar is a good choice.

For my fish only tanks, I always try to create a rotation of water or a flow in a circle around the tank, rather than than just pushing it to one or more sides.
On my 55 with Africans, using two canisters on each side of the tank, on the right side I have the intake in the front corner and output in the back corner aiming towards the left side back of the tank and on the left side of the tank, intake in the back corner and output in the front aimed towards the right side.
This creates a swirling circulation pattern in the tank.
I feel this is not a perfect situation but it moves the water around nicely.
Now my question... how much circulation is too much for the fish?
I tried adding an HOB to add even more movement to the center but the fish just looked like they were working a bit too much.

 

[TMaier]

Wondering if I have enough circulation occupies my mind often. Moving water and debris to the filter intake before it settles. I have considered adding a small powerhead with adjustable flow. But also worry my fish will be unhappy if it is too much flow. If they could just talk it would be so much easier.


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[Caliban07]

Wondering if I have enough circulation occupies my mind often. Moving water and debris to the filter intake before it settles. I have considered adding a small powerhead with adjustable flow. But also worry my fish will be unhappy if it is too much flow. If they could just talk it would be so much easier.


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If they could talk they would probably tell us other things we didn't want to hear...haha. I suppose it depends on the species. Some are more tolerable than others at dealing with lower oxygen levels. Some get bashed around because of their long fins, some love playing in the fast moving water and some simply couldn't give two hoots.

I've just done a video. I don't really know what I'm doing so I hope it works. This is not to say how your flow should be. This is just how my flow is.

Hope this helps.

https://youtu.be/ap9wpDcbyhA


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[TMaier]

Nice leaf movement. Where is your intake and output?


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[Caliban07]

Thanks



Intake is in the left Corner and the output is the spraybar.




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[gemach7]

I use 1 800gph circulation pump that is on the bottom of the left side. It is pointed toward the glass at about a 35 degree angle.
Filtration is 2 hob 1 inlet 1/2 up the tank, 2nd in a few centimeters from the bottom.

I have played with the setup over the year. I get 2 locations of main debris landing.
In front of drift wood near the circulation pump. And the hob with bottom inlet.
Other hob primarily grabs the occasional dropped plant leaf that floats along the current

Total water movement is about 650 gph when I measure actual output of each device with pond dye and a stop watch.

Also a 55 gallon. And not sure if helps.




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[TMaier]

Thanks

View attachment 287877

Intake is in the left Corner and the output is the spraybar.




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Here is a video of mine.
https://youtu.be/Kp_gPlrvCok

What do you think?


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[Caliban07]

Looks ok on the left. Not so much on the right. The spraybar that came with my canister was that size so I carried on using the fluval which spans the length of my tank. Trouble is, if you extend the spraybar the flow will be the same but the velocity per jet will decrease and so the flow peters out faster.


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[TMaier]

My hubbie is a wiz with acrylic and polycarbonate. I'll see if he can whip up a full length bar and see how it goes. If no improvement, do you recommend a powerhead?


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[Caliban07]

My hubbie is a wiz with acrylic and polycarbonate. I'll see if he can whip up a full length bar and see how it goes. If no improvement, do you recommend a powerhead?


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Lots of people DIY their spray bars. It's worth a shot. I think the plants in the right would appreciate more flow. A power head would work but you don't want to oppose the flow from your spray bar. it should work with it.


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[LiQuiD]

No you are not looking too far in to this. in my opinion flow is essential in a planted tank any any tank for that matter. Probably more so in tanks that don't use plants as the importance of circulating oxygen is heightened. Basically any flow pattern that works to counteract the flow pattern from another source is a bad idea. This creates turbulence and weakens the flow creating stagnant areas. It's especially hard to get this right in larger/deeper tanks. All outputs should point the same way and in your case I would have the inlet on the same side behind the outlets with the outlets next to each other.



I'm sure there are many useful configurations and mine is probably still a far cry from perfect but following the advice from others I found that using a spraybar a works well for me.


The water carrying my co2 exits the spray bar across the width of the tank, hits the glass at the front and is forced downwards and backwards along the substrate and back up the back wall in a circular motion around the centre axis.

I just went from about 2x tank turnover and hour to 7x. My BGA problem vanished in two days and my plants are swaying nicely and all plants are growing evenly. Whereas in my older configuration which was a filter in two corners with outlets trying to form a circular motion I would get dead spots and crud patches and the plants in those areas would suffer.

The problem with spray bars is that the longer they are the weaker the exit velocity is from each hole which means you need a more powerful filter.

If you look at some of the pros though, they still have beautiful tanks without using any kind of fancy flow pattern but then I'm sure there are many ways they can accelerate their tanks to look like this before we get to see them.

Thank you for the wonderful response Cali, that is exactly what I was looking for. That is exactly how I have my output & input right now (right next to each other) I have battled myself on getting the spray bar or not. My filter didnt come with one, but I could do a DIY, no problem. I have just always enjoyed watching the fish play in the stream from the powerhead, but I think better circulation/filtration needs to come first.

Side question, what kind of reactor do you use?

I have heard that about spray bars and length. What size is your tank? Wondering if I should do a bar 60-70% the length of the tank.

Thanks for the video, your tank looks great.

 

[LiQuiD]

Here is a video of mine.
https://youtu.be/Kp_gPlrvCok

What do you think?


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Wondering if I have enough circulation occupies my mind often. Moving water and debris to the filter intake before it settles. I have considered adding a small powerhead with adjustable flow. But also worry my fish will be unhappy if it is too much flow. If they could just talk it would be so much easier.

I agree with Cali, and think you could use a little more. They make smaller, low gph powerheads you can try for that tank. Like THIS one. (the 240gph)

I have heard of others pointing their spray bar up like you have, to help create surface agitation. Do you do this instead of having an air stone? Your betta looks amazing btw.

 

[Caliban07]

Thank you for the wonderful response Cali, that is exactly what I was looking for. That is exactly how I have my output & input right now (right next to each other) I have battled myself on getting the spray bar or not. My filter didnt come with one, but I could do a DIY, no problem. I have just always enjoyed watching the fish play in the stream from the powerhead, but I think better circulation/filtration needs to come first.



Side question, what kind of reactor do you use?



I have heard that about spray bars and length. What size is your tank? Wondering if I should do a bar 60-70% the length of the tank.



Thanks for the video, your tank looks great.

Thanks liquid. You are very welcome ?

I use an inline atomiser made by UP

http://www.co2supermarket.co.uk/up-inline-atomizer-co2-diffuser-16-22-p189.html

It's connected to the outflow. Although I have read numerous times that the trapped co2 building up in the filter is harmless when connected to the inflow I would prefer to follow the advice of the manufacturer in this case. I may end up switching the configuration to get better dissolution and to stop the 'snow globe' effect but for the time being this will do.

My tank is a 46 bowfront so the flow may not be as linear as intended due to the curve on the glass. How exactly this alters the flow pattern is unknown. I get better spraybar coverage on the right side and this is where flow is greater. The plants on the left side grow a tad slower but then the left side has mainly slower growing plants.

Any way you can distribute the water more evenly will be a good thing so a DIY spray bar sits well with me. When I was at 2 x turnover the water from the spray bar would not reach the substrate and so I had low flow areas down there and lots of algae. Now it's clear. I suspect this is due to a combination of better nutrient distribution, better plant growth and better flow rate rather than just flow rate.


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[TMaier]

I have heard of others pointing their spray bar up like you have, to help create surface agitation. Do you do this instead of having an air stone? Your betta looks amazing btw.

I just removed the air stone. To maximize co2 in the water. But fish gotta breathe so I use the surface agitation. I'm going to try a longer spray bar and if I still don't see more happy swaying pick up a powerhead.

I am very pleased with my betta Blue. He is an attention hog. I was videoing the kuhli's last night and of course he had to jump in.


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[Caliban07]

I just removed the air stone. To maximize co2 in the water. But fish gotta breathe so I use the surface agitation. I'm going to try a longer spray bar and if I still don't see more happy swaying pick up a powerhead.

I am very pleased with my betta Blue. He is an attention hog. I was videoing the kuhli's last night and of course he had to jump in.


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Any news on the new spray bar?


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[TMaier]

Any news on the new spray bar?


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Not yet. I went to Tap plastics but they do not have anything with the inside diameter I need to connect to the output. The seller I bought from has extension pieces I am just waiting on a quote to buy.



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