Cloudy Tank advice needed

[KenW]

Hi to Everyone,
I started my new 40g freshwater tank 6 weeks ago and it has never cleared up. I knew it would be cloudy at first, but it has yet to become a crystal clear tank. I have 2 goldfish, 5 neon, 2 platos, and just added a algae eater this past weekend. I got the goldfish first to quickly initiate the cycling, then every other week got the other fish which I should have just waited until now to start with fish. Anyway, the water has never cleared even with regular water changes of 25% every few days. Clearing chemicals have had little effect. It has a Penguin bio-wheel 200 filter that I have 2 carbon filters having added the second to see if that helps. It has a 12" airstone and I washed everything; the substrate, the plastic plants, the decorative castle, everything before adding it.The temp is staying right around 78°. I have had successful tanks(20g & two 10g) in the past but I cannot figure out why the water will not clear up. Is it the goldfish? The airstone? HELP!
thanks
Ken

 

[meegosh]

I'd say the tank wasn't properly cycled and you are experiencing a bacterial bloom. Basically your tank cannot keep up with the amount of fish you have in there. 25% water changes daily would be good place to start. Also, do you have a test kit so we can see what your waters parameters are? If you don't I would recommend an API Freshwater Master Test Kit. It's well worth the money.

 

[happygirl65]

You are still cycling....basically eveytime you added fish your cycle has to catch up and depending on the load it is almost like starting over. You can probably expect it to take a month from the time you added your last fish before the cycle is complete. Maybe even longer since you are needing to do very frequent water changes.

If you can add some media to the tank from another established tank it will help it along faster.

Do you have test kits? Test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate everyday....when the ammonia and nitrite ate .5ppm or above you need to do a water change. This will help protect your fish from ammonia burns and nitrite poisoning.

You could also throw in a bunch of lowligh stem plants such as hornwort that will help suck up the ammonia...they are also covered in benficial bacteria. So it can help on two fronts.

 

[KenW]

Thanks!
I have a test kit and everything checks out perfectly, which surprises me. I guess I expect a problem with each water change, I treat the new water prior to adding it to the tank.
Do you think the goldfish will eat the plants? I am looking into real plants, but am worried the goldfish will eat them.
Also, the fish are very active, constantly swimming around like they are very hungry, is this a sign of premature cycling? Or are they really THAT hungry all the time. I feed them once a day, as suggested in other sites I've visited.
Thanks!

 

[Purrbox]

Take some of the water out and put it in a white cup. Check to see whether it's actually green cloudiness instead of white cloudiness. If so you're dealing with green water (a form of algae).

 

[jsoong]

First, welcome to AA! I am surprised that all your levels are perfect .... I would not expect a tank to cycle completely in 6 weeks.

I must comment on mixing golds & tropicals. I know people do it, and purist will frown on it. I am sure you know the pitfalls - Goldies & tropicals need different food, so you need to feed them seperately. And big goldies consider small neons a tasty snack so you might have to seperate them down the road. Also, if you have a common pleco as the algae eater, check that it is not sucking on the gold's slime coat. Some commons (generally when they are bigger) are know to do that when the goldies are sleeping.

Re: cloudiness. What color is it? Green or white? If green <you might have to take a bit of tank water out in a white cup to really see>, that would be an algae bloom. If it is fine air bubbles, then it should go away in a few hours sitting in a container. Otherwise it is likely a bacterial bloom, an indication of incomplete cycling.

Goldfish ALWAYS look hungry. If they are not constantly searching for food ("booking") then something is wrong. The only time my goldies are quiet is when they are sleeping.

Real plants & goldfish ..... depends on what fish you have & what plants. Single tailed varieties will eat just about anything .... Doubled tailed fancies MAY be compatible with plants. Anubias & Java ferns are generally goldfish safe. Hornwort maybe. Other plants you pretty much go by trial & error.

I've had no problem with plants up till a week ago (swords, crypts, vals, hygro, anubias, Java ferns & hornwort) - my goldies won't eat any veggies that is not cooked. However, I went away on holidays & my daughter must not be feeding the fish much (since I kept harping on the dangers of overfeeding). At any rate, someone had decided that hygros are good to eat! My hygro jungle is now mowed down to 2-3" tall ..... But since hygro grows like weeds, that is not too bad .... so far .... fingers crossed.

 

[MichaelsLilGray]

if you need your tank cleared out .. go on ebay and get a purigen kits. Stick it right behind your media filter and let it do its thing... but if your not cycled.. it may mess up your paramiters.. which can be, and could not be a good thing.

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

Please post the actual water parameters, as "perfect" to you may not be great

 

[rachaelsosilly]

I did the same thing you did, out of ignorance of fish keeping. It took a few weeks after for my smaller, 8 gallon tank, to cycle and then become clear. I just kept doing 25% water changes and checking the levels of everything. I did have to replace my bubble wand with an airstone because the bubble wand was too powerful and was stirring up things from the gravel all the time. So, yeah try the water changes and maybe try something other than the airstone you are using now!

 

[KenW]

water conditions

okay, so I have taken everyone's advice and have continued with regular water changes, added 2 huge and beautiful hornwort plants, and added seachem stability. the water has somewhat cleared a little, so it all seems to be working.

jsoong, Thank You for all your expert insight. The goldfish are leaving the plants alone(they are the double tailed fancies), and I agree, they do not belong with tropicals. The cloudiness is white, and when looking directly at the tank it appears clear until about 1/2 way in, then its murky. when looking in from the side, you cannot see to the other side of the tank its so murky.

Now the numbers are completely whacked. My pH is at 6.0, alkalinity is 40, nitrites are 5.0 and nitrates are creeping up to 40. Should I worry about these fluctuations? I read and read different blogs and informational websites and am getting conflicting information. One blogger said the SeaChem stability would make my numbers go crazy, does anyone think this is okay?
Thanks again everyone!

 

[happygirl65]

Good move adding the plants, it should help speed up the cycle.

You want to have .5 or less of ammonia and nitrite to avoid overly stressing yor fish. The fact that your pH is 6.0 is probably what is keeping it from killing your fish as it is less toxic in more acidic water.

I still think that the cloudiness is the bacterial bloom catching up. It will go away once your tank is cycled....you will know it is cycled when you see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and your nitrates keep rising. (Try to keep nitrates under 40)

I would do a water change everyday at this point....making sure that you use prime to condition the water by removing chlorine.

Don't worry so much reaching a magic pH level, just make sure it stays stable where it is. If your tap water is significantly different in pH than your tank then I would suggest small changes of 10% - 20% more frequently.

 

[meegosh]

Just to reiterate... Keep up on those PWCs. Your tank is not cycled and having a nitrite reading of 5 is not good. I would do large water changes to bring that number down. If it goes above .5 do another water change to get it below.

I wouldn't add any new fish just yet, wait for things to stabilize. Also, I would stop adding the seachem stability, its a waste of money.

 

[2cvbloke]

The goldfish are leaving the plants alone(they are the double tailed fancies), and I agree, they do not belong with tropicals.

They sound like Orandas to me (often called Fancy goldfish, Fantails, pretty much everything but their real name!!!), one of my favourites, but very messy fish...

And no, they're not tropical, but I have heard they can do well in that environment, but may not live as long as they should...

 

[KenW]

i was thinking about starting a second tank, this time cycling without fish though first! and moving the goldies to that tank. The other idea I had, well my wife and daughter's idea, is to install a pond in the backyard and move them out there. I have had them for about 6 weeks and they seem to have grown quite a bit. what do you think?

 

[2cvbloke]

i was thinking about starting a second tank, this time cycling without fish though first! and moving the goldies to that tank. The other idea I had, well my wife and daughter's idea, is to install a pond in the backyard and move them out there. I have had them for about 6 weeks and they seem to have grown quite a bit. what do you think?

A second tank for the two Orandas would mean you need a 30 gallon, going from the advice I got here a while back it's 20g for one plus a further 10g for any extra Orandas (I've broken the rules slightly with my mum's tank though by having 3 in a 29g, plus 2 Weather loaches and 3 Hillstream loaches!!!), but if you have plenty of filtration and do regular water changes you would be able to get away in a smaller tank, but preferably not less than 20g.

As for the pond idea, that's beyond me, but I'm sure someone knows whether Orandas are OK in ponds, they're fussy fish and suffer in the slightest irregularity when it comes to water condition...

 

[KenW]

gettin' frustrated

...and about ready to give up! but not just yet...I've sunk too much money into to this to give up so soon.
the goldfish have pretty much devoured 1/2 of the hornwort plants in the past week. they won't leave it alone. the water is beginning to slowly clear up though and i continue with regular pwc's. i guess i can't complain, i've only had one neon die in 2 1/2 months since starting this project!

any suggestions on why the nearly indestructible plant is shedding and getting eaten? the shreds of green grass makes the water look dirty.

does anyone suggest that i should change out the carbon filter every 2 - 4 weeks as suggested by the manufacturer? the tanks at the school where I work look as though theirs have never been changed(they are nasty!) and those tanks are crystal clear and beautiful.
thanks everyone for all the support and guidance, i REALLY appreciate it!

 

[2cvbloke]

Goldfish are like cows, they just graze away on whatever plants are in the tank, I know how you feel as I kept trying to plant the big tank, but the two orandas just kept pecking at the plants and tearing them up, which is why I put the plastic ones in, they peck, but cannot eat them. That's another one of the reasons to keep them in a tank of their own...

As for clarity, try slowing your filter(s) down, this should aid in capturing particles that are just whizzing through the cannister(s). Also try using filter wool, between the large sponges and the carbon filter, basically giving you a 3-step filter...

Hope this helps...

 

[FastFly67]

I was having a problem with some cloudy water. I moved my algae eater into this tank. (i wasn't having an algae problem i don't think but there was *something* on the glass) did a 50% water change. thoroughly swished around my filter media in the tank water i was extracting (boy was it dirty!) it didn't clear up immediately but after 2-3 days, it's crystal clear

 

[morningman]

Be Patient

I know it's hard, but be patient.....this tank too ...will cycle. My other advice would be to ditch the goldfish. They are filthy. Good Luck!