Cloudy water

[jorhoades75]

Can gravel vacuuming make my water cloudy? I did a big water change about 3 days ago and my water got so cloudy I could hardly see into my tank! Today starts day 3 and I can tell it's clearing but have no idea why it got cloudy??

[roydooms]

Originally Posted by jorhoades75

Can gravel vacuuming make my water cloudy? I did a big water change about 3 days ago and my water got so cloudy I could hardly see into my tank! Today starts day 3 and I can tell it's clearing but have no idea why it got cloudy??

Vacuuming can make your water cloudy but cloudiness is usually due to a bacteria bloom. What's your tank's parameters? How long has the tank been running?

[Termitehunter]

And what kind of gravel is it? How was it prepped for the tank?

And since it was a big water change did you do any maintenance to the media in the filters? If so what kind?

[jorhoades75]

Up and running for 6 weeks...what is bacteria bloom? My cheapo test stripes say water is great...however I think I need a better test...recently I lost all my fish while treating ich....actually I lost my pleco who seemed like he didn't have ich right after the water was changed and became cloudy.

[jorhoades75]

I just put my carbon filter back in...it was out while I was treating ich.

[eco23]

Originally Posted by jorhoades75

I just put my carbon filter back in...it was out while I was treating ich.

There's a good chance the ich meds damaged your bio-filter and your tank is experiencing a mini-cycle. Do you know your ammo, nitrIte and nitrAte levels? The mini-cycle is what is most likely causing the algae bloom. I'd also invest in an API Master Kit to make sure you're getting accurate readings...the test strips are notoriously inaccurate.

Check out this guide in the mean time to make sure you can keep the fish alive and healthy during the process.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ow-116287.html

[jorhoades75]

Actually all my fish died so my tank is running but no fish...lfs told me to wait another 4 weeks before adding fish again...

[eco23]

Originally Posted by jorhoades75

Actually all my fish died so my tank is running but no fish...lfs told me to wait another 4 weeks before adding fish again...

Rule #1- never listen to what the guy at the lfs says. The truth unfortunately is that once a tank has ich...it's pretty much there to stay. It goes dormant in the substrate and lays in wait for fish to have a weakened immune system to strike again. Since there are no fish in the tank, it may be a good opportunity to break down the tank, rinse everything real good in a mild bleach solution (rinsing well of coarse), replace your media and do a fishless cycle.

Check out the link in my signature and see what's involved.I'll be more than happy to help you with anything you need along the way

[jetajockey]

Originally Posted by eco23

Rule #1- never listen to what the guy at the lfs says.

I wouldn't make that a cardinal rule, some LFS people actually know what they are talking about, keyword: some.
Chain stores really shouldn't be considered LFS.

The truth unfortunately is that once a tank has ich...it's pretty much there to stay. It goes dormant in the substrate and lays in wait for fish to have a weakened immune system to strike again.

I'd really like to see any documentation you have to prove this claim.

Ich is a parasite and it does not have any extended period of dormancy. If it's eradicated in its vulnerable life stage, or cannot find a host, it dies. All of the papers and information I've read related to it refers to it as an obligate parasite.

Since some fish can be carriers without showing any outward symptoms, or even have an immunity to the parasite, perhaps that's what gives rise to the idea that they pop up out of thin air.

[eco23]

Originally Posted by jetajockey

I wouldn't make that a cardinal rule, some LFS people actually know what they are talking about, keyword: some.
Chain stores really shouldn't be considered LFS.

I'd really like to see any documentation you have to prove this claim.

Ich is a parasite and it does not have any extended period of dormancy. If it's eradicated in its vulnerable life stage, or cannot find a host, it dies. All of the papers and information I've read related to it refers to it as an obligate parasite.

Since some fish can be carriers without showing any outward symptoms, or even have an immunity to the parasite, perhaps that's what gives rise to the idea that they pop up out of thin air.

I'm in the middle of painting, so I can post some references in a bit. I believe for one thing it's mentioned in the sticky about ich in the unhealthy fish section of this website. The ich meds only kill the parasites while they are in the free swimming life stage.

[eco23]

Regardless though...if the OP is going to leave a tank sitting empty for 4 weeks (which would obviously kill off any BB which remains), I can't imagine there's a feasible explanation why it would be a bad idea to break down, sanitize the environment, and do a fishless cycle to build a healthy bio-filter for when the tank is restocked.

[jetajockey]

Originally Posted by eco23

I'm in the middle of painting, so I can post some references in a bit. I believe for one thing it's mentioned in the sticky about ich in the unhealthy fish section of this website. The ich meds only kill the parasites while they are in the free swimming life stage.

I look forward to reading it. I do agree that they are only vulnerable in the free swimming stage of their life, that's why raising the temp during treatment is so effective.

Originally Posted by eco23

Regardless though...if the OP is going to leave a tank sitting empty for 4 weeks (which would obviously kill off any BB which remains), I can't imagine there's a feasible explanation why it would be a bad idea to break down, sanitize the environment, and do a fishless cycle to build a healthy bio-filter for when the tank is restocked.

Nothing wrong with that, I just wanted clarification on the motive behind it. You made the claim that "The truth unfortunately is that once a tank has ich...it's pretty much there to stay." , and since that's contrary to the commonly held belief, I ask for you to substantiate it. Unfortunately since you have so many helpful posts and a good writeup, newbies can and do take your word as gospel without even verifying it.

[Batt4Christ]

Originally Posted by jetajockey

I wouldn't make that a cardinal rule, some LFS people actually know what they are talking about, keyword: some.
Chain stores really shouldn't be considered LFS.

I'd really like to see any documentation you have to prove this claim.

Ich is a parasite and it does not have any extended period of dormancy. If it's eradicated in its vulnerable life stage, or cannot find a host, it dies. All of the papers and information I've read related to it refers to it as an obligate parasite.

Since some fish can be carriers without showing any outward symptoms, or even have an immunity to the parasite, perhaps that's what gives rise to the idea that they pop up out of thin air.

I agree- "average" lfs are unreliable for I for tank and fish care, BUT - sometimes you find a lfs that is owned and operated by hobbyists who really do care about the health and well-being if the fish and other inhabitants they carry. We have such a store nit too far from us. While you still will find some conflicting opinions and disagreements (see her on aquariumadvice.com for an example if this), our lfs does care and try to give good advice. I have witnessed them refuse to sell fish to someone who didn't have the tank to house the fish they wanted to buy. I have seen them give very good advice regarding compatible fish. Do they make mistakes? Yes- because they are human. But they do try to do what's best, all based on actual experience in the hobby.

That being said- I agree w/ other's advice to just break down the tank and give everything a good clean/sanitation (also know asn nuking). It is the only reasonably sure way to prevent a comeback of ich and other nasties. If you are already planking to wait 4 weeks to return to fish, what's just a bit longer when you can start fresh, fishes cycle, and give future inhabitants the best home you can!

[eco23]

Originally Posted by jetajockey

I look forward to reading it. I do agree that they are only vulnerable in the free swimming stage of their life, that's why raising the temp during treatment is so effective.

Nothing wrong with that, I just wanted clarification on the motive behind it. You made the claim that "The truth unfortunately is that once a tank has ich...it's pretty much there to stay." , and since that's contrary to the commonly held belief, I ask for you to substantiate it. Unfortunately since you have so many helpful posts and a good writeup, newbies can and do take your word as gospel without even verifying it.

I appreciate the civil and respectful response. I also hold lots of admiration for all the assistance you have provided. I have been lucky enough to of never had to deal with ich (at least since I knew what I was doing with all this, lol), though I am one of those people who over analyze and read everything I can put my eyes on. I've seen both sides of the argument written about...and my mind has simply decided on the potential of it becoming dormant for long periods, not only from articles...but first hand accounts of many members here. One of the good / bad things of the Internet is everyone has their own conclusions...and it's really up to the individual to decide what they agree with.

Like I said though, with an empty tank lacking an efficient bio-filter, fishless cycling is the best option IMO. Personally, If my tank had parasites or any other illness while previously stocked...I'd rather spend an hour cleaning the tank ensuring you don't have a recurrence of the same issue.

Again, thanks for the respect and I view you as an esteemed member as well

[jorhoades75]

Bleach! I have heard that you should never use bleach....but I've heard lots of other questionable advise over the last few weeks.

I am here to learn how to make a happy healthy habitat for fish I can enjoy for years to come! So if nuking my tank is what needs to be done then I'll do it...step by step directions would help tons if you have time, or a link, something to reference.

[eco23]

Originally Posted by jorhoades75

Bleach! I have heard that you should never use bleach....but I've heard lots of other questionable advise over the last few weeks.

I am here to learn how to make a happy healthy habitat for fish I can enjoy for years to come! So if nuking my tank is what needs to be done then I'll do it...step by step directions would help tons if you have time, or a link, something to reference.

I honestly can't remember the ratio...20 parts to 1? (water to bleach). Personally with the substrate and decorations, I would use something like a colander and thoroughly rinse it in blazing hot water in the tub to kill any nasties living in it. I'd take the actual tank outside and use the bleach solution and the hose to clean it and the actual filter housing and just start over with all new media once it is cleaned. As long as there are no fish nearby, a mild bleach solution is fine to use...its actually very similar to normal chlorinated tap water...you'd be shocked how much chlorine is in tap water (more than in a pool in many cases).

Other members will hopefully chime in with any other input, but this is the method I've heard many times before.

Did you get a chance to read up on the article in my signature?

[jetajockey]

yeah I've seen 19:1 or 20:1 recommended dilution for bleach, it's really a guesstimation more than anything, just rinse really well and remember to dechlor a little extra for good measure when you are ready to refill the tank.

[Batt4Christ]

The whole bleach thing causes great worry because chlorine bleach means death to most all living things. But!!! Even if you used 1 cup to gallon as a cleaning/sanitizing wash, you would still be safe if you rinse enough. Rinse until you no longer smell bleach, then rinse a few more times. Then, when you fill it, dose it heavy on the chlorine neutralizer and crank up the filters and pumps. Give it a day and then start the fishless cycle. Only way you mess up is if you skimp on the rinsing.

I have even heard of soaking/dipping driftwood (especially "wild" collected) as a safety precaution. While that would concern me because wood soaks up water (or bleach), rocks and glass do not.