Cycling Question

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Bucky Katt

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
38
I started my cycle a week a go today (fishless). I added enough ammonia to the water to read about 4 ppm.. I started out without live plants and then 2 days later I needed to add some ammonia to the tank to get my level back up to about 3 ppm. I then added some live plants to the tank and since then daily water checks have given the following reading

Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite .5ppm
Nitrate 5ppm

I do have some leaves floating around the tank or stuck the the filter screen (possible ammonia source?). It has been pretty conisistant. Should I keep going and see how it does in another week?
 
Not sure on ammonia, but decaying plant matter does bring up your phosphate levels. As for the fishless cycle, you don't need to add more ammonia til you see 0ppm. Now that you are seeing nitrite, if your ammonia goes to 0ppm, only bring it back up to 1-2ppm when it reaches 0ppm. When both ammonia and nitrite both reach 0ppm in less than 24 hours, then you are cycled.

The main reasoning for waiting til the ammonia reaching 0ppm is to help keep your nitrates lower in the end. If you keep bumping to 4ppm when it drops a little, nitrite and nitrate will rise and in the end, will have a mess of nitrate to deal with. And once you are cycled, then do a 50-75% PWC to bring the Nitrates back in check and you are set.
 
Dead plants are not an ammonia source as I understand.
 
Also, if you are testing right after dosing, you won't get an accurate reading. You need to test a couple hours after dosing to allow the ammonia to get evenly distributed in the tank. also, if the plants you added are fast growers, chances are you could possibly see the ammonia dropping faster, as the plants will use the ammonia as food. But it usually takes a couple days to get going, as some plants are in shock when being moved or planted in a new tank. But they get over it fairly quickly.
 
I did some research and any decomposing organic material will produce ammonia. So the decaying leaves are probably my source of ammonia right now.
 
I'm working on my fishless cycle now, and it took me about a week before ammonia started actually going away. My initial dose held out for that week. Now I'm having to dose daily to keep it visible (2ppm). You'll know when you hit that part of the cycle when Nitrites go off the chart. Mine hits the 5ppm mark without any 5 minute wait at all. Just glad there are no fish in there.

It just takes a little while for the Ammonia -> Nitrite bacteria to get going good and strong. Give it a few more days, it should take off.
 
Just as another data point, I put fish in after 4 days (I thought I was being extra careful, according to the literature that came with the tank and the LFS genuis). Nitrites spiked almost immediately, and have stayed spiked ever since. Several partial and major water changes later, and the nitrites are still right at 5. Ammonia, however, is at 0, and nitrates are present but low. I'm one day into the third week since setup, and just found out about (and added) Bio-Spira. Hopefully that will give the fish a break from the Nitrite bath.

This is in a 29G, gravel bed, live planted, with a Cory, 4 Tiger barbs and 4 Neons. So far I have only lost 1 Tiger and 2 Neons from my original load.

I'm sure I could have made more mistakes to start off, but it would take some serious research. Maybe omitting the water.

One question - with my ammonia at 0, even with the fish load, should I look into adding ammonia to keep the bacteria colony balanced? Or does that the fact that I have high nitrites with 0 ammonia mean that that part of the cycle is working quite well, and leave well enough alone?
 
Or does that the fact that I have high nitrites with 0 ammonia mean that that part of the cycle is working quite well, and leave well enough alone?
The above statement is how I would approach it.
The fish are the ammonia source thats feeding the nitrite creation so it there no doubt.I wouldn't add anything more and just wait it out.

Your well on your way.
 
It is now 1.5 weeksinto my cycle and I am still seeing the same levels.

Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite .5ppm
Nitrate 5ppm

How long does it take to get the first bacteria to start growing?
 
2 weeks and still no change in any of my readings. I have been checking everyday my levels everyday. I may go to the store tonight and grab some shrimp (how bad does the smell get?)
 
Whats the tank temp?If it not there already take it to the low 80's...that will speed things along a little.

No need to add shrimp...the ammonia is already there...
Are you sure its pure ammonia?No foamy bubbles when shaken?
 
The temp is 82-84 degrees. Yes it is pure ammonia. No bubbles. No other ingredients on the bottle.
 
It has been 3 weeks and still no change in my cycle. Is there anything that can be done to speed this up? I mean Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels have not changed a bit
 
Bucky - have you added ammonia since that first "shot" ? it does seem to be an awfully long time with no movement - I wish I knew how to help you. I'm sure others will turn up with some advice
 
Yes I did, but I was told that since the ammonia is at 4ppm, not to add anymore until I start to see the levels drop.
 
ok - so you stopped adding - you really should have seen some movement. Do you have the top tightly covered? those good bacteria have to come from somewhere - I'm assuming its the air.
Have you brought some water to the LFS for them to test ? maybe your kit is bad ? (are you using liquid tests or strips ?)
 
those good bacteria have to come from somewhere
Dormant in the tap water actually.

If the tank was initially filled with DI/RO water that can be a problem.

Also low ph can or will hinder the bacteria growth....stops it completely around 6 I think...does best at just over 7.
Worth a check anyhow.
 
OK

I am using a liquid test kit, American Pharmacceutical. It is working fine. I tested it by making different ppm Ammonia solutions, and it was dead on.

The cover is not too tight. I actually have gaps where the filter and heater are.

I used conditioned tap water to fill my tank.

pH is at 7-7.2

I am at a loss here.

Is it possible to fishless cycle using Bio-Spira?
 
I used Bio-Spira when I got frustrated waiting for the second tranch of bacteria (the ones that convert nitrites to nitrates) - my mom was coming for a visit and I wanted fish in the tank by the time she came (plus I didn't feel like explaining why I had a rotting shrimp in there ! LOL).
You can certainly use Bio-Spira. I would do a large water change beforehand to get your ammonia to 1 - 2ppm. Then add the Bio-Spira. Keep feeding fish food as an ammonia source to keep those bacteria fed while the second tranch multiply. By the 3rd day you should be reading 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite. You're supposed to add the fish immediately after the Bio-Spira but I didn't trust it enough to do that (I wanted to make sure it was working !).

On the Bio-Spira, its sort of hit or miss - it must be kept cold the entire time before its used otherwise the bacteria will die. Mishandling either during shipping or in the store can kill it. I was fairly confident mine would work since the store I bought it at wouldn't even take it out of the fridge until I was at the counter ready to pay (they said alot of people keep browsing so they want to make sure it stays cold). I brought a small insulated lunch bag with one of those blue "ice blocks" in it for the trip home.

You can check the Marineland website for retailers that carry their products but I'd suggest you call them first to make sure they specifically carry Bio-Spira.

I'm really sorry for frustration on the fishless cycle.
 
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